Break the Trinity System Please

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Even is support role is a good idea, it wouldnt get rid of the trinity system, thing is, we dont really have buffer/debuffers. Protect and Stoneskin dont make a buffer class, Bio and Virus dont make a debuffer. I think a class specialized on support and debuffing skills can come and give us a fourth role, but will still be limited and be like that.

As much as i love build theory crafting and all, i preffer honest lack of variety over illusion of free will. Take GW2 for example, all classes can do "everything" and therefore there is no "roles" since everyone should be able to tank/deal damage/heal other or self... This failed misserably, with the evasion mechanics, most parties went full on max DPS and just outDPSed bosses everywhere since they also can heal and take a few shots, and the down mechanic even if is cool, can be abused to beyond limits doing this, making a group of glasscannons suddenly immortals.

[RayneBoemir]

True support classes wouldn't work who wants to really stand there and cast buffs and you can get that if a class like this were introduced it would be the least playable class in the game. It would have to be dps/support like bard.

[Lollerblades]

I'm hoping 3.0 will slowly do away with this. I'm really hoping a support job is released, hence why we got ninja now.

[ReplicaX]

True Support Jobs would serve this game so well.

What do you all think?

I disagree heavily due to:
- Balance
- Community Mentality

Both explained well in the other thread and Duelle.

I'm hoping 3.0 will slowly do away with this. I'm really hoping a support job is released, hence why we got ninja now.

Really, no thanks. I like Bard and Ninja(so far) as they are currently. Bard when played to its full potential provides a lot of utility and dps. I see the same potential out of NIN.

XI community & dev team ruined Ninja's original vision as a utility dps. While I did enjoy tanking on it for 9 years, there was a lot of missed potential and unknowns. I really don't want this to happen to this job again.

[Sapphic]

I'm all for SE adding more jobs with support abilities. Pure support, not so much. Thats coming from someone who loved mezzer, bard and Dirge in Everquest. Pure support only works in large scaled parties as for balance, in small scale parties a pure support cannot out weigh taking a DPS over them. Rift 5 peep dungeons, things went a lot faster/smoother going 3 DPS, tank, healer over 2 DPS, support, tank, healer.

Not to mention, if they increased party size and balanced dungeons for 5/10 peep parties, the game would be better served making the additional as another DPS to ocunter the disparity between, not just the number of players going DPS, butthe disparity between the choice of DPS jobs compared to tank and healers.

Also for the system, support will needs be able to solo. Would be counter productive not to be so, as how many do you think would touch a job that needs to party to do anything? Some would, pretty safe to say many more would not.

You could say, "make levelling require grouping". Going on past MMO history (not just FFXI) forced grouping for levelling works at the beginning then after a point it becomes a negative and a barrier to getting new players due to the population diminishing overtime in low level areas making it more and more difficult to progress which in turn deters new players. Then the game changes to make levelling more accessible.

Jobs are pretty balanced in usefullness at this time. Something SE learnt well from FFXI where job balance was pretty non-existant. All jobs are useful, none are really must haves to even be able to pass certain content. Let SE keep it that way.

[Aylis]

Support classes are my most favorite classes to play and while I would love one here. Realistic though sadly I don't see it happening in this game unless the devs can better think outside the box and change the way combat and battles work. To be better adaptive outside of the basics of do you tank, heal, or dps. Along the lines of removing patterns and making battles random. Something Yoshida said early on he wouldn't do random elements in battle because none would be able to clear the content. Going along the lines of removing the elemental wheel becaue it would be too stressful to players.

I would say give me the stress PLEASE, I like stress of support / hybrid role but I know it will never happen here unless the core elements of battle change. Its all stock tank, healer, and dps from here on out with maybe a slight nod to support roles mixed in with their abilities.

[Sapphic]

Along the lines of removing patterns and making battles random. Something Yoshida said early on he wouldn't do random elements in battle because none would be able to clear the content. Going along the lines of removing the elemental wheel becaue it would be too stressful to players.

Designing fights which rely on random mechanics and elements isn't as easy as it may sound. There has to be some structure, otherwise the fight success can fall totally into the roll of the dice. But, saying that, many fights do have a certain randomness to it. as examples, t6, who gets honeyglazed, turn 7 who gets voice/shriek. t8, allagan field. etc.

What Yoshi said about random fights is he didnt want one party easy clearing content and another not being able to based solely on rolls of the dice.

as a side thought.

The original "holy trinity" was not Tank, Healer, DPS. But Tank, Healer, Mezzer (crowd control support role), DPS was a given. But back then Mezzers controlled the battlefield, not the tank

[Aylis]

snip

I may have mis-worded what i wanted to say I think. I meant to say not so much random mechanics and elements but more rather of "this is what the monster can do, the monster can use these abilities at random, be ready for anything" type of system, like say taking away the set pattern of Primal's abilities per phase and having them happen in any order. I know it won't happen here because the game wasn't designed for that. Then it may better suit it for support gameplay. Ala Everquest where bards would be pullers, twisters and melee'ers and chanters would be mezzers and buffers and debuffers and mini nukers ^^

Also you have no idea how happy I am when you said the original trinity was tank,healer, mezzer/slower. I was biting my tongue on that because of the time when dps replaced mezzer/slower in the trinity. ^^

[Sapphic]

I may have mis-worded what i wanted to say I think. I meant to say not so much random mechanics and elements but more rather of "this is what the monster can do, the monster can use these abilities at random, be ready for anything" type of system, like say taking away the set pattern of Primal's abilities per phase and having them happen in any order. I know it won't happen here because the game wasn't designed for that. Then it may better suit it for support gameplay. Ala Everquest where bards would be pullers, twisters and melee'ers and chanters would be mezzers and buffers and debuffers and mini nukers ^^

Also you have no idea how happy I am when you said the original trinity was tank,healer, mezzer/slower. I was biting my tongue on that because of the time when dps replaced mezzer/slower in the trinity. ^^

We used to use Necros for pulls, feign death ftw! XD Bards pulling sand giant trains in Ro >.<

TRAIN TO ZONE! MOVE IT OR LOSE IT!

Everquest 2 at launch XPiing in Fallen Gate, seeing someone running past trailing half the dungeon, sighing as you knew they would splat your party running back XD then at the end, having to walk to freeport because you where overburdened with copper coins :P

[Aylis]

We used to use Necros for pulls, feign death ftw! XD Bards pulling sand giant trains in Ro >.<

TRAIN TO ZONE! MOVE IT OR LOSE IT!

Everquest 2 at launch XPiing in Fallen Gate, seeing someone running past trailing half the dungeon, sighing as you knew they would splat your party running back XD then at the end, having to walk to freeport because you where overburdened with copper coins :P

Oh Fancy, how I remember the stories of your sand giant trains xD