Red Mage - A DoM Tank Job?

[Tribunus]

Current iteration of the game doesnt really have a place for hybrid/support roles, which Red Mage is typically. Unless of course they overhaul the current duty finder/battle system to include the role, but a lot of content would have to be adjusted to allow two or more of a role that does less dps and healing than everyone else but brings specific buffs/debuffs.

With how the holy trinity is at the moment I think Red Mage would only currently fit if it was designed to be a tank, but I think it would just end up being a Rune Fencer/Geomancer with a different name for popularities sake.

[myahele]

I can see it happening. Have a stance that boosts defense and a trait that makes it difficult to be interrupted. Have everything else will be be typical caster.

Pro: Access to AOE magic damage
Cons: much less HP, must cast spells to generate enmity

[GalkaBikini]

I just can't wait until RDM finally comes out and it isn't what people want and we'll go through a couple weeks of doom and gloom posts, etc etc zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. RDM by far seems to have the most different amount of visions for the class amongst the playerbase. The one thing that RDM has ALWAYS had is both white and black magic. Their ability to use shields does not make them a tank. Their ability to use swords/daggers does not make them a melee. RDM SHOULD be in the backlines casting both black and white magic. But of course players are too busy trying to turn it into something it's not, or something they wish it was, instead of simply playing the class they should be playing. It's annoying when you're trying to do content and some RDM wants to come in and swing his rinky dink sword for subpar damage when the real melees (samurai, dragoon, etc) are tripling or more the amount of damage a RDM is doing - not to mention this is going on while people are taking damage, and the RDM isn't healing anyone because showing off is more important to him. If you want to melee, play a real melee class instead. If you want to tank, play a real tank class instead.

I'm not saying RDM absolutely can't do these things, but why do them when someone else can do it better, and you're better suited for a different role anyway?

[DarkStar]

snip red MAGE snip

Here's something interesting for you to think on, then. In the original Final Fantasy, the very first one, the game that started the entire series...Red Mage could equip some decent armor and weapons. Perhaps not as good as Thief/Ninja, and DEFINITELY not as good as Fighter/Knight, but between that and having access to such spells as Temper and Haste, they could be QUITE effective in melee.

I'm not advocating making Red Mage a tank class; In fact, I think that's a HORRIBLE idea! However, I think that between the various FFs, there's plenty of precedence for Red Mages fighting at the front lines on equal terms with pure-physical classes by using their magic to augment their abilities.

[GalkaBikini]

It's like I said, of course RDM CAN do those things. But while your RDM is buffing itself so that it can actually be effective in melee, your other melees have already had their turns and are way ahead of the RDM in damage. So what's the point? Anytime I've ever used a RDM in any of those games, it's always been my ONLY healer, because that is the most effective use you can get out of it. When it doesn't have to heal, it can cast buffs and debuffs, or nukes. That's what a real red mage is.

[TThibi]

Not entirely possible but then everything is possible, consider in 3.0 SE does away with the Monstrosity (ffxi) setup they've adapted to use for this games job systems since 1.0, all of a sudden current starter classes are reworked, renamed Conjurer is basically Redmage in every way except lack of refresh and haste. Separated from White mage there is possibility Fencer/Redmage could become a job in it's own right. Oh look Redmage is also Fencer, a tank role!!

[Radacci]

Their ability to use swords/daggers does not make them a melee. RDM SHOULD be in the backlines casting both black and white magic. But of course players are too busy trying to turn it into something it's not, or something they wish it was, instead of simply playing the class they should be playing. It's annoying when you're trying to do content and some RDM wants to come in and swing his rinky dink sword for subpar damage when the real melees (samurai, dragoon, etc) are tripling or more the amount of damage a RDM is doing

except that rogues do more damage with daggers, than warriors do with 2h axes.
so if RDM is DD, then it will also do more damage than 2h axes, with their rapiers/whatever...or isn't rogue, melee, cause they use daggers?
well they could do RDM gunner

It's like I said, of course RDM CAN do those things. But while your RDM is buffing itself so that it can actually be effective in melee, your other melees have already had their turns and are way ahead of the RDM in damage. So what's the point? Anytime I've ever used a RDM in any of those games, it's always been my ONLY healer, because that is the most effective use you can get out of it. When it doesn't have to heal, it can cast buffs and debuffs, or nukes. That's what a real red mage is.

pleaaaaaaase, ppl...stop comparing XIV to XI!!!
JOBS DO NOT WORK THE SAME WAY IN XIV, AS THEY DO IN XI!!!!!
MNK/DRG/BRD also buff themselves, to be effective! or do you think DRG would be effective without B4B, Life Surge, Power Surge, Internal Release, Disembowel, Heavy Thrust? or MNK without greased lightning?

not to mention this is going on while people are taking damage, and the RDM isn't healing anyone because showing off is more important to him. If you want to melee, play a real melee class instead. If you want to tank, play a real tank class instead.

except many buffs are instant, and you weave them in between skills. or you buff up before combat.

[Wildsprite]

It's like I said, of course RDM CAN do those things. But while your RDM is buffing itself so that it can actually be effective in melee, your other melees have already had their turns and are way ahead of the RDM in damage. So what's the point? Anytime I've ever used a RDM in any of those games, it's always been my ONLY healer, because that is the most effective use you can get out of it. When it doesn't have to heal, it can cast buffs and debuffs, or nukes. That's what a real red mage is.

please keep this line of thinking to yourself.
RDM has always been more than a caster in every instance of it. putting it backline and making it a healer/buffer/debuffer/nuker is a mistake.
in their first MMO Final Fantasy XI RDM was a very effective tank and DPS. it could take the role of almost any other job. making it just a healer or a nuker/buffer in that game, you aren't taking advantage of its abilities. you claim it has those rinkidink swords that do little damage. well how about this, you know those en spells? those are entirely damage with no TP build for the enemy. with some enemies you didn't want to give them TP because that spelled doom for you. that was FFXI.

now we move on to FFXIV. a whole new game that shares some character models with its predecessor but that is about it.
they are still trying to figure out how to fit hybrid jobs into their system so I doubt we will see RDM for some time. I suspect when we do it will be more than just a caster just like it has always been. and I truly hope they do give us the tanking aspect with it in this game.
and I suspect we will see some instance of BLU after that point but it is hard to say.

[Duelle]

The one thing that RDM has ALWAYS had is both white magic, black magic and a sword.

Fixed.

It's annoying when you're trying to do content and some RDM wants to come in and swing his rinky dink sword for subpar damage when the real melees (samurai, dragoon, etc) are tripling or more the amount of damage a RDM is doing - not to mention this is going on while people are taking damage, and the RDM isn't healing anyone because showing off is more important to him.

You do know that this was more due to battle engine limitations, right? Turn-based RPGs don't require nor support hybrid gameplay per se. By extension neither did FFXI since, like the console RPGs, it treated everything as standalone elements and the hybrid jobs basically had said elements without anything to make them mesh nor emphasize ability synergy.

The story changes when you have a battle system that supports a hybrid class while having it take up one of the roles in the trinity. By this token, RDM doesn't need self buffs, doesn't need debuffs, and doesn't need crap like Refresh. All it needs is sword, offensive magic, healing magic and mechanics that make the three interact and you'd have a solid and proper interpretation of this job that can fit into an MMO without becoming that thing from FFXI.

[GalkaBikini]

Radicci, lol. Not once did I mention FFXI in my post, we were mostly talking about the single player games. Goodness.

Wildsprite, you are wrong. It's simple math, and if you're not good at math, then I can definitely see how you might not understand the most efficient ways to play a RDM. RDM crappy melee damage means nothing when real melee classes are auto attacking up to 5 times harder than you are. If your RDM was meleeing Nidhogg, you are not a good player or RDM. If you are meleeing as a RDM in meta-game content, you are playing poorly, end of story.

All of the above discussions matter depending on which game we're talking about, and what level on content we're talking about.