Suggested changes to Duty Finder queues

[Zeny]

After reading this players post in "Phase Skipping: Battle on the Big Bridge":

I'd like to add a comment:

This entirely sucks as the "chosen sacrifice".

I'm not even Nexus farming, just doing Trial Roulette, and I get hit with Rocket Punch. I'm swinging away at Gilgamesh (it actually had me attack him, first time seeing that happen) and not getting an Esuna thrown my way. Healed, certainly, but I may as well have been dead and not ress'ed with all the control and ability to actually play the game that I have. At 20% I ask for an Esuna, wondering if they're that new, and get told "No" and "he doesn't do anything else if a person is confused". I look it up and this is, of course, a known exploit for farming.
I wouldn't have complained if this (obviously organized) farming group had "sacrificed" one of their own. But they didn't. The other person got an Esuna. And don't start with me on "it has to be a caster" when you admit the fight is easy; you could even have a Monk confused and easily heal through it.

It's a dick move to the uninvolved player.

I think it's a good opportunity to suggest changes to the duty finder. I know that when all is said and done, the DPS queues are going to be long. There has to be more incentive to allow new players to actually play the game. So much of the content has to be missed for new players.

For example - what, if any good, would adding different options to Duty Finder do if no one else checks them? Like the ability to check options like "Cutscene watching" and "First time" and pairing players off that. Do people even check that stuff in Party Finder groups? I don't. If DF didn't pair new players with people doing a roulette, would these new players even be able to complete some content? The 100myth bonuses are not enough. There's only a small value in these tombstones to players who have already progressed and have their Novus and their gear, and with the new patch changes I don't know how much value they will continue to have if any. Gil is objective and easy to obtain within reason as well.

There needs to be something aimed at completionists, an achievement or a title maybe. Something earned ONLY by helping players through a dungeon for the first time, not something like reputation (pointless) that can also easily be farmed.

Personally I don't mind queueing up to help new players through a dungeon, "slow and easy" and what have you. I, like many, have several battle classes that are well geared and to 50 and have no reason to go back to these lower level dungeons. If there were a title, a barding, a mount, an achievement, SOMETHING obtainable for actually doing this stuff (and the player was limited to one of these roulettes per day, like Main Story) would it be enough? Would the community really still attempt to abuse and farm it no matter what? Kind of depressing to think about...

[Vidu]

Oh yes! I totally agree on that - was just talking about a smiliar idea to a friend a few weeks ago. I've got all classes to 50 (and if theres one thing I dont need its myth...) so there is no reason for me to run lowlevel dungeons again - still I always liked to help new players through it - but nope, I wont queue up for lowlevel roulette again as long as I'm getting only a few useless stones and the chance to end up in CC with three people pushing there last classes to 50. An option for old players like "helping" in df and options for new ones like you described them would be great. And I really like the idea of obtaining some special reward from it like the commendation-system is at the moment.
Still there would be two things I'd like to add:
1) Skipping of cutscenes must be blocked (for everyone) during those runs so that new players really can watch them - maybe not that important in most dungeons but in the last storydungeons I consider this important. Otherwise people will queue for it to get their bonus and start to ask for skipping cutscenes again or just leave the new player locked ot from bossfights etc. (call me mistrutsful but I've seen this happing in pf-groups which where clearly lable as "watching all cutscenes due to new ones"...)
2) I'd like to see any way the new player can "control" if his helpers get there reward or not. Again, I'm being mistrustful, but the idea would be that you're there to help those guy(s). So you should only get the reward if you tried at least to play like that - means: no rushing, explanitions if needed, stuff like that - should be common sense though if you enter a duty like that but still I'm seeing "speedrunners" who will just be like "yeah, hurry, doesnt matter if you get whats going on". So maybe something like... a second commendationsystem or so? Which the new player would be forced to answer before leaving duty ofc - a questition like "was this player helpful?" and you will only get your reward if you get at least one "yes".

[Lebenoshl]

Yeah turning 45 minute quenes into 2 hour quenes sounds like a great idea!

[Zedd702]

Yeah turning 45 minute quenes into 2 hour quenes sounds like a great idea!

That's a little over exaggeration there...

I for one especially referencing Castrum and MOST DEFINITELY Praetorium. They should do lockouts until the cutscenes are complete, then the group should be able to progress. It's unfair to the new player to miss out on the fighting or be told that they should have to skip the cutscenes to partake in the fighting mechanics of the dungeon, due to people farming. There should be options where, when queuing for Duty finder if you ask for a group to view cutscenes for the first time, this lockout feature should apply and if you dont check it then you get queued with the others that are farming. I don't believe this will affect queue times as significantly as you say (although I'm sure that was just sarcasm with the two hours comment).

[Zedd702]

Sorry for the double post but would not allow more than 1k word post?


The real deal with Queuing now is lack of Tanks/Healer classes in the game (and to some extent timezones). Most that main em have did all they want and moved on to leveling a DPS, so finding tanks and healers to queue faster is as rare as waking up to winning the lottery.

[Vidu]

Ofc queue times (specially as dps...) can be that long, I know - but you didnt get my point: I'd like to have this option too - not only this. Like the "join in progress"-button which you can press but dont have to. And to encourage people to do so there could be a special achievement for those who are helping. Any new player can freely choose if he'd like to wait a bit longer to have a higher chance of watching cutscenes, getting an explantion during runs and so on. No one would be forced to do so - but I suppose that new players who might be afraid to enter a dungeon because there might be people shouting at them, being rude, stuff like that would prefer some sort of "safer" area to run a dungeon for the first - again: They dont have to... but if they like...

[Thistledown]

I think there should be an achievement and a Title for someone who plays with and completes dungeons with people who are in it for the first time.

[MXMoondoggie]

Achievements and titles are nice but i think it'll only make things worse when people are helping new players simply for getting a reward since it'll just make both sides resent each other more. Helping others should be a want and not a need. I wouldn't be against rewards for finishing X amount of runs with new players in the group but i don't think it'd make anything better. Neither would having DF give options to pair only new people together it's a benefit to have an experienced player to tell you where you are going wrong and to explain things but rewarding some impatient jerk who is trying to finish as quick as possible and drag new people through a dungeon to farm and achievement is not something i want to see either.

[Zeny]

Yeah turning 45 minute quenes into 2 hour quenes sounds like a great idea!

They're going to get that long with ninja anyway. There needs to be a reason for someone to want to tank or heal. The mount for tanking is great for example, but only counts towards the achievement if you're doing higher level content. Why? It should be lower level content, its much more difficult to farm the lower level stuff than it is the higher level stuff at this point. Getting that mount is just something that will eventually happen anyway for most people that tank, because they usually are a part of a static.

I think that most people will agree, square has some of their priorities backwards. There really just needs to be incentive to do low level roulette (and potentially not be an asshole to new players) once a day. Why is it that the expert roulettes and higher level roulettes award you with the currency you want most? Like soldiery. Just reverse the rewards or something. With the uncapping of Soldiery and the introduction of new tomes, I for one will be tanking/healing low level roulettes whenever possible.

So look for me when you expect your tank to do a full clear of a dungeon for experience(ninja), I won't waste my time because I'm only there for the completion bonus! Actually, thats a great idea. What if there was a some kind of full-clear bonus to a dungeon? Would suck to attempt that in Tam Tara normal, but idk. At least I'm trying to contribute to some sort of solution here.