With things like third party DBMs coming to XIV... when are we getting addon support?

[Yshnal]

DBM is crap. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I'm just being honest and straight.

If a game really needs DBM that means that that game is not well designed, period, and it should be asked for it to be improved instead of getting crappy add-ons. And if the game doesn't need it, then why do you want to make it trivial?

Also, you have to keep in mind that console users can't use them. And you should know already that getting such add-ons would only create segregation between both platforms. That's the reality.

So I'll say this again: beyond more UI customization (that should be implemented by SE anyway), add-ons are NOT necessary here. You DON'T need dps meters, you DON'T need DBM, and you DON'T need many other things (heal bot, etc.). Now, I know that they're just tools and that some of them are useful when properly used, but from my experience they give way more headaches than any positives that they could bring.

So, I'm pretty happy with not having add-ons here.

[Risvertasashi]

DBM is crap. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I'm just being honest and straight.

Honestly... to be blunt, I don't really care what anyone thinks about a particular not-addon/third party tool.

As a personal interest, I just want "addons" that make a healer's life easier, like showing when a party member is out of range or, like another poster mentioned, reworking the kinda crap buff/debuff bar.

You're right, of course. We don't need any of this (We don't need any new quests either but they sure are fun!). But it's quality of life and people are making and getting these utilities anyway. By giving what SE already promised, we could cut down substantially on third party tool use.

[Yshnal]

Honestly... to be blunt, I don't really care what anyone thinks about a particular not-addon/third party tool.

I'm sorry if it came out offensive, but that wasn't my intention. I still think that DBM is crap, though, as I see it kinda like cheating. With it, instead of learning the fight you're just following what the add-on tells you.

As a personal interest, I just want "addons" that make a healer's life easier, like showing when a party member is out of range or, like another poster mentioned, reworking the kinda crap buff/debuff bar.

You're right, of course. We don't need any of this (We don't need any new quests either but they sure are fun!). But it's quality of life and people are making and getting these utilities anyway. By giving what SE already promised, we could cut down substantially on third party tool use.

And why don't you ask that they improve it for everyone instead of making them use these same resources to build the API to make add-ons possible? I think that if everyone benefits without having to rely on outside apps, it would be better. And everyone will be playing with the same rules, too (unless they break the ToS, but that's their problem).

[Teirshin]

Honestly... to be blunt, I don't really care what anyone thinks about a particular not-addon/third party tool.

As a personal interest, I just want "addons" that make a healer's life easier, like showing when a party member is out of range or, like another poster mentioned, reworking the kinda crap buff/debuff bar.

You're right, of course. We don't need any of this (We don't need any new quests either but they sure are fun!). But it's quality of life and people are making and getting these utilities anyway. By giving what SE already promised, we could cut down substantially on third party tool use.

You can already tell if someone is out of range for heals if the number with the icon for the spell is red when you select them..... how much more hand holding do we need? Most of the game is already faceroll easy where you can sleep through it. If you dont want to put in a little effort.. why even play?

I dont see SE allowing addons, despite prior claims. They have enough problems managing their own code without others writing stuff to piggyback on it, and anything that gives PC users that sort of advantage, they simply will not allow.

[Shougun]

DBM is crap. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I'm just being honest and straight.

If a game really needs DBM that means that that game is not well designed, period, and it should be asked for it to be improved instead of getting crappy add-ons. And if the game doesn't need it, then why do you want to make it trivial?

Also, you have to keep in mind that console users can't use them. And you should know already that getting such add-ons would only create segregation between both platforms. That's the reality.

So I'll say this again: beyond more UI customization (that should be implemented by SE anyway), add-ons are NOT necessary here. You DON'T need dps meters, you DON'T need DBM, and you DON'T need many other things (heal bot, etc.). Now, I know that they're just tools and that some of them are useful when properly used, but from my experience they give way more headaches than any positives that they could bring.

So, I'm pretty happy with not having add-ons here.

The problem is that it doesn't matter over time XD - SE is also again putting everyone in a weird position. Yoshida saying something akin to Don't ask Don't tell, but SE has also said not to read memory as it offers an unfair advantage.

As the tool gets better and more popular and SE does nothing SE will see players challenge harder content sooner and more efficiently, then they will affect the balance for non-tool using users (or users not in a group with one using it). I suppose for those who want a notched up fight that is good, but I don't think it is good for SE to cater designs to the users doing something not sanctioned. They should either get strict or properly gear everyone else (imo).

More likely than not though SE will just hide and hope no one asks a straight answer, since that is the easier choice lol. (Watch as Camate comes and proves my statement wrong.. XD)

[Risvertasashi]

I'm sorry if it came out offensive, but that wasn't my intention. I still think that DBM is crap, though, as I see it kinda like cheating. With it, instead of learning the fight you're just following what the add-on tells you.

And why don't you ask that they improve it for everyone instead of making them use these same resources to build the API to make add-ons possible? I think that if everyone benefits without having to rely on outside apps, it would be better. And everyone will be playing with the same rules, too (unless they break the ToS, but that's their problem).

Us healers have been asking for stuff like this for a long time. SE has limited resources; if we had an API, we'd already have better buff bars, alliance panes, party windows, etc. And probably better UIs for tanks and DPS and crafters too. Of course, for people that don't care and don't need them, they'd be free to stick with the defaults.

You can already tell if someone is out of range for heals if the number with the icon for the spell is red when you select them..... how much more hand holding do we need? Most of the game is already faceroll easy where you can sleep through it. If you dont want to put in a little effort.. why even play?

I dont see SE allowing addons, despite prior claims. They have enough problems managing their own code without others writing stuff to piggyback on it, and anything that gives PC users that sort of advantage, they simply will not allow.

The problem is you have to try to select them first. And then, if I can't select someone because they're *that* far away (Say ST or PVP)... I mentally make a note to not even try to heal them, which means if they run back in range they still don't get heals.

...yeah, I'm worried they might have just decided to drop it. I hope not, but if they have decided not to do addons after all, I'd like them to tell us. Anyway, I could easily see PS4 support being added as well. It doesn't have to be PC exclusive.

[Yshnal]

Us healers have been asking for stuff like this for a long time. SE has limited resources; if we had an API, we'd already have better buff bars, alliance panes, party windows, etc. And probably better UIs for tanks and DPS and crafters too. Of course, for people that don't care and don't need them, they'd be free to stick with the defaults.

The problem is what Shougun explained, so eventually even those not willing or needing to use them now, will be expected to use them. And the main issue with that is that I don't agree with any game that makes you use outside tools instead of giving them directly through the official client, specially if I'm giving them money.

That's what happened in "the game that shouldn't be named", and I don't think that we're so special as to don't make that happen here too.

[Teirshin]

The problem is you have to try to select them first. And then, if I can't select someone because they're *that* far away (Say ST or PVP)... I mentally make a note to not even try to heal them, which means if they run back in range they still don't get heals.

...yeah, I'm worried they might have just decided to drop it. I hope not, but if they have decided not to do addons after all, I'd like them to tell us. Anyway, I could easily see PS4 support being added as well. It doesn't have to be PC exclusive.

Keep in mind, its not just the healers job to keep people alive, they have to take SOME responsibility for it too. If someone keeps running out of range, and dies, thats on them, not me. Its a two way street, and esp if I'm doing the MT heals, I talk to the MT and make sure we're on the same page, he keeps an eye out for where I am, an I do the same for him. When you have a group spread out all over the place, a healer cant possibly follow with all of them, so they need to work at being within range of the healer.

In some fights, there's a crap ton of stuff to watch for, and thats part of the challenge of it. The group cant expect the healer(s) to do it all, and if they do, then they deserve what they get when they're dead on the floor.

Do the best you can, but dont get worked up if others arent helping you to help them.

[Risvertasashi]

The problem is what Shougun explained, so eventually even those not willing or needing to use them now, will be expected to use them. And the main issue with that is that I don't agree with any game that makes you use outside tools instead of giving them directly through the official client, specially if I'm giving them money.

That's what happened in "the game that shouldn't be named", and I don't think that we're so special as to don't make that happen here too.

I am fully against automated healing a la World of Warcraft. But I would like better tools for managing information. I think, if the API is limited so that we can't semi-bot, it will be perfectly possible for a default-UI player to succeed.

I would be fine with a "read only" API personally (can not perform any action automatically). Though some players may like auto turn ins and stuff.

Keep in mind, its not just the healers job to keep people alive, they have to take SOME responsibility for it too. If someone keeps running out of range, and dies, thats on them, not me. Its a two way street, and esp if I'm doing the MT heals, I talk to the MT and make sure we're on the same page, he keeps an eye out for where I am, an I do the same for him. When you have a group spread out all over the place, a healer cant possibly follow with all of them, so they need to work at being within range of the healer.

In some fights, there's a crap ton of stuff to watch for, and thats part of the challenge of it. The group cant expect the healer(s) to do it all, and if they do, then they deserve what they get when they're dead on the floor.

Do the best you can, but dont get worked up if others arent helping you to help them.

I agree in spirit. But I want to be the best healer I can possibly be.

Part of "skill", IMO, is managing information effectively. (for example, rearranging the default FFXIV HUD). With better tools to manage info... well, let's keep on with the range example. If I know someone is out of range before I try to select them, I can get heals on a secondary target faster. If I know someone's back in range sooner, I can potentially prevent a death.

Now if that DRG decides to go stand with another alliance or hunt targets on his own... yeah, I'm not going to sacrifice the whole party to run over and heal them, but if they come back, I don't want to let them die if I can help it either. Even if they are somewhat to blame.

And for crafters... how about better inventory/materials management and tracking? And so on for other professions.