[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[Delily]

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Ok, I think this proves this is your first MMO. The basic design of this game is that every class fulfills one of 3 roles - tank, healer, or damage. In that context, all classes must operate equally well. The summoner class, while iconic in FF, is just the "mage pet" archetype that has existed in MMOs since the necromancer class in EQ. Given all that, please provide details as to why the summoner class AS IMPLEMENTED goes against the core design of the game, and is either over or under performing as compared to bards, monks, and black mages. Then, please explain how your recommendations will fit the overall design of the game and restore balance. This is an MMO, not a console game.

[DarkmoonVael]

How about you go back to page 1 and see the same terrible points being brought up again and again, and the same counter points being used. At this point its not a discussion, even if you want it to be. Its beating a dead horse.

Please stop beating said dead horse, its dead.

So what you are really saying is you havent read my posts, you decided to quote me and then call me part of the vocal and (bad) minority, then justify doing this with what others (others that have nothing to do with me) have said? I dont really think your arguments hold much credence now.

People are discussing this at the moment, maybe becuase there are a lot of player who have just started the class for the first time etc and want to be involved in the discussion. I fail to understand your problem, and more concerning, you seem to want to cencor those who want to talk about this, or attack them without justification (which evidentally you have just done).

[Akiza]

Delily players have no clue on balance no matter how well they try to fit their recommendations into overall design of the game take a look at the Black Mage threads to see how op their suggestions are. Player's aren't responsible for fitting their suggestions into the overall game design that's the developers job because don't have the expertise to balance a mmorpg. Players want the Summoner to be a Pet job so SE might balance it by splitting it from the Arcanist so it won't affect the Scholar or just rework the class/job system so the jobs becomes primary.

[Delily]

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Fair enough, but I wouldn't bet on SE drastically redesigning the class like that. I can't think of any instance of a company doing that. To my knowledge, the most extensive redesign of a class was the warlock revamp done by Blizzard in Catalysm, and even then they didn't change anything about the core of the class.

[Shikiseki]

I think if they'd change the Summoner class to the point where summoning midfight is beneficial, that would probably make the Summoner class feel more like a summoner again. Right now it's just Summon and be an Arcanist. Maybe some kind of Enkindle when you summon an egi or passive party DPS boost for a while. I mean 800mp + 5s cast time have to be worthwhile. Or a skill that shifts the Egi for that desired effect.

At least for me that would make it pretty cool, especially once the new summons come out.

[dday3six]

*snip*

I said you were projecting onto the rest of us, due your claim 80% of players play FFXIV because of FF nostalgia. A statement like that is projecting. It not saying that you're alone in your feelings, but rather that your assuming others share your feelings without knowledge of it.

Balance is important because if an idea needs to be changed so much it vaguely resembles the starting point, what good is it to use that idea. That isn't an attack on the reason for suggesting the idea, only the idea it's self.

I'm not going beyond my own anecdotal experience. I've played since beta, had several statics, across 3 servers. I've chatted ARR in several mediums and this thread is the only example I've come across requesting radical changes to Summoner. Truthfully I feel the burden of proof would be on the group requesting changes to prove why such changes need to be done, and how they would actually benefit the game.

[winxbloom61]

yes for sure the dots are fine but the egis themself are so not egi wise all the egis should be lvl 15 including new ones coming out also personaly id like a specalization system for summons

for example u specailze in Ifirts abilitys (him as a egi) then you using ifirt would be better than you using Garuda and so on

[Dwill]

Delily players have no clue on balance no matter how well they try to fit their recommendations into overall design of the game take a look at the Black Mage threads to see how op their suggestions are. Player's aren't responsible for fitting their suggestions into the overall game design that's the developers job because don't have the expertise to balance a mmorpg. Players want the Summoner to be a Pet job so SE might balance it by splitting it from the Arcanist so it won't affect the Scholar or just rework the class/job system so the jobs becomes primary.

You of all people shouldn't be telling who has a clue about balance and who doesn't.

[dday3six]

Delily players have no clue on balance no matter how well they try to fit their recommendations into overall design of the game take a look at the Black Mage threads to see how op their suggestions are. Player's aren't responsible for fitting their suggestions into the overall game design that's the developers job because don't have the expertise to balance a mmorpg. Players want the Summoner to be a Pet job so SE might balance it by splitting it from the Arcanist so it won't affect the Scholar or just rework the class/job system so the jobs becomes primary.

Balance in the suggestion is part of the suggestion being heard, and taken seroiusly by the developers. It's not about doing the development work load for them so much as it is about not adding to the work load they already have.

[dvoraen]

The only real changes I want them to do to Summoners are improving their burst damage. Not by much, mind you, but making it less sustained and a little more burst. For me, I'd actually cut Bio II and stick its 35potency of damage into Ruin, make Ruin II an AE spell with a cast time (it'd still be 80pot and that plus DoTs plus pet would be 'a bit' more AE), then unrestrict Bane and call it a day.

(For those doing the math, you'd have 75pot from the DoTs + 80pot from Ruin II = 155 sustained which competes with Fire II with a full Astral stack, as well as a combo Ring of Thorns and GS3 Rockbreaker.)


What I'd really like them to do is make abilities change/improve based on what Egi you have out. Something like:

Ruin
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 80.
Ifrit-Egi Bonus: Increases potency to 95.
Garuda-Egi Bonus: 10% chance to increase the duration of your damage over time spells by 6 seconds.
Titan-Egi Bonus: Heals your Titan-Egi for 100% of the damage dealt.

Buuuut, that gets craycray long to read (data smog!) the more Egis added, and you have to memorize all of it, and so on.