(Slight) Changes to Job Crystal System

[Ravenguard]

I love the Job Crystal system and its ability to define your class into what feels like a truly unique role. However, I feel like improvements can be made to allow for expansion of additional Job crystals for existing classes. I view Dragoon, Scholar, and Warrior as fantastic examples of how equipping your Job crystals should feel. The iconic jumps, and a system of building rage to unleash threat and defensive abilities lets you feel like that's what you were designed to do. If SquareEnix were to give Marauders a DPS job crystal (say Berserker), their core abilities would transfer well to another set of unique job skills (save additional threat on skills).

The problem of additional jobs per class becomes apparent if you consider giving the existing Tanking classes a DPS job crystal. Gladiators would become DPS by way of a job crystal, however they still have access to a large number of defensive abilities (Rampart, Sentinel, Convalescence, etc.) which would make them take overall less damage than their DPS counterparts while dealing comparable damage.

By trading a few core abilities around, I feel that you can truly define a job's role and specialty from other crystals for the same class.
Using Paladin as an example:

[Paladin]
30: Shield Oath
35: Cover
40: Sentinel
45: Spirits Within
50: Hallowed Ground

[Sword Saint] (Example Gladiator DPS)
30: Sword Oath
35: Judgement Blade
40: Duskblade
45: Hallowed Bolt
50: Divine Ruination

(Sword Saint ability names taken from FFT abilities)

You'll notice that the only real change is moving Sentinel to the job crystal, along with a slight order change. Sword Saint would get Paladin's Sword Oath.

By equipping a Paladin crystal, you facilitate survival by reducing damage taken through the abilities granted. If you equip the Sword Saint job crystal, you forgo these (much in the way Monk or Dragoon already do) to focus on dealing large amounts of damage. Sword Saint would still have access to some lesser survival cool downs (I.e. Rampart).

Using White Mage as another example:

[White Mage]
30: Divine Seal
35: Regen
40: Cure III (trading from a class ability)
45: Benediction
50: Holy

[Geomancer] (Example Conjurer DPS)
30: Torrent
35: Quicksand
40: Snowstorm
45: Wind Blast
50: Magma Surge

(Geomancer ability names also taken from FFT abilities)

The idea is you are given a much greater toolkit for healing as a White Mage. Geomancer would still has access to Cure and Cure II to assist with healing if necessary, but when equipped INT gear (I assume) and a limited toolkit, it wouldn't be nearly as effective (like BLM with Physick).

I think only small changes need to be made to certain existing job crystals, with abilities chosen to facilitate your specific role in a party (like DRG DPS jumps and SCH's additional heals), otherwise having multiple job crystals will make you feel like your basically the same exact class minus a silence/root/whatever.

[Exstal]

I believe this kind of thing is only possible if Naoki decides to revamp the job/class system a whole lot since many jobs are pretty heavily rooted in their role (tank, healer, dps).

CNJ, for example, has these traits;

Freecure - Grants a 15% chance that after casting Cure, the MP cost for your next Cure II will be 0.
Overcure - Grants a 15% chance that after casting Cure II, your next Cure III will cost half MP.

As well as these skills;

Cure, Cure II, Medica, Medica II, and Esuna

With GEO having 4 skills that are basically worthless, and 1 godlike skill for a DPS, I fully believe that it would be imperative to rework CNJ heavily.

As for GLA traits;

Enhanced Rampart: Increases damage reduction granted by Rampart to 20%.
Enhanced Convalescence: Improves the HP recovery increase granted by Convalesence to 30%.
Enhanced Shield Bash: Extends Stun duration inflicted by Shield Bash to 6 seconds.
Enhanced Awareness: Extends Awareness duration to 25 seconds.
Enhanced Sentinel: Increases damage reduction granted by Sentinel to 40%.

All these traits are basically useless to a DPS but sticks pretty true to a tank focused job. Now their actions you've touched upon but that still leaves out abilities like; Shield Swipe, only useful while tanking and blocking; Bulwark, useless if not tanking; and Provoke, which, unless you're trolling heavily, is not something a DPS should ever use.

I'd like to see classes get existing second jobs but the way they have the classes set right now, if it wasn't made for two jobs to start with in mind, it's glaringly obvious a massive rework of all the classes' base abilities and traits has to be done to accommodate for a second job of a different role. Then there's advocates trying to get a second job of classes that are the same role. However, that's a can of worms for another thread.

[Ravenguard]

Oh right, the traits. I knew I forgot something. I suppose those would have to be rolled in / replaced into abilities that are moved to Job crystals.
For things like Convalescence, Awareness, and Medica I see them as on the weaker side for a Gladiator/Conjurer DPS class but situationally helpful.
You are quite correct about Medica II, however. I would think that it might be a good candidate for the White Mage job job crystal, however feeling the constraints of only 5 abilities becomes ever so apparent.

With the expansion coming, if they plan on expanding existing classes with additional job crystals I think a slight revamp would need to take place.
I just feel classes like Gladiator, Pugilist, Conjurer, and Thaumaturge suffer from being too similar to their Job counterparts, with or without the crystal.

[RickmanUK]

With the expansion coming, if they plan on expanding existing classes with additional job crystals I think a slight revamp would need to take place.
I just feel classes like Gladiator, Pugilist, Conjurer, and Thaumaturge suffer from being too similar to their Job counterparts, with or without the crystal.

Don't Wanna Sound too much like an Arse... But That's the Point of them at the Moment. The Jobs are Specialized Additions ontop of the Existing Training you've got with that Skill-set/Class. They ARE Similar because they use the Same Basic Skills as a Leap into Further power. Only one that Stands Slightly Apart is Summoner/Scholar, And Even they use the Same Basic Knowledge (Summoner is using the Knowledge as a "Lens" for much Older Knowledge which is Largely Lost).

Any Additional Jobs for the Basic Classes should use the existing Training as a Stepping Stone too greater power, Gladiators Adding "Dark Magic" too their Skills too boost their Power would be the Foundation of say the Dark Knight, Conjurer's Focusing Less on the Balance of Nature and more on it's Fury could be Geomancers Basis.
Not Gonna Argue.. The Job System could do with Some Tweaks.. But Breaking Everything away Completly from the Classes will make the Game lose some of it's Flavour. (Too me Anyway)

[Ravenguard]

Don't Wanna Sound too much like an Arse... But That's the Point of them at the Moment. The Jobs are Specialized Additions ontop of the Existing Training you've got with that Skill-set/Class. They ARE Similar because they use the Same Basic Skills as a Leap into Further power. Only one that Stands Slightly Apart is Summoner/Scholar, And Even they use the Same Basic Knowledge (Summoner is using the Knowledge as a "Lens" for much Older Knowledge which is Largely Lost).

And I would completely agree with you if the intent was only to offer on single Job crystal per class as a direct increase in power to said class. But because (I assume) the intent of the system was to add multiple roles per class I feel like a little Job definition would be required in order to facilitate the performance of a specific role (be it Tank, Healer, DPS). For instance, Sword Oath on the Paladin crystal does little to assist with Tanking (compared to just taking off Shield Oath).

Any Additional Jobs for the Basic Classes should use the existing Training as a Stepping Stone too greater power, Gladiators Adding "Dark Magic" too their Skills too boost their Power would be the Foundation of say the Dark Knight, Conjurer's Focusing Less on the Balance of Nature and more on it's Fury could be Geomancers Basis.
Not Gonna Argue.. The Job System could do with Some Tweaks.. But Breaking Everything away Completly from the Classes will make the Game lose some of it's Flavour. (Too me Anyway)

Unfortunately, I dont see trying to turn a Gladiator into a Dark Knight by way of only 5 crystal abilities a feesable thing. That seems like something that would need to be built from the ground up as a seperate class.

Just in case there was any confusion, what I was trying to say is that the Job crystals should grant classes tools to perform their specific role in a party better to allow role diversity if said class was equipped of a different crystal (Crystals should focus on Damage Reduction cooldowns for Tank roles, Healing Abilities for Healers, Damage Abilities and DPS cooldowns for Damage Dealers, etc.).

[Velox]

They were able to create an amazing healing job from a DPS class (arguably the best healing job in the game currently), they know what they're doing. I have little doubt that their plan already accounts for this. Remember developers have content panned out a lot farther than the average player accounts for.

[MartaDemireux]

In an interview a month or two ago Yoshi said that they may be considering not adding 2nd jobs to existing classes. They said that it works well if it's planned from the start but it's hard to retcon it. They also said they may be looking at a reworking of the class system in place and implement a new one.

On the opposite side of things he did say a year ago that it is possible to change class abilities and their effects for different jobs. An example he used was removing the added enmity on GLA weaponskills when you equip a DPS crystal such as Dark Knight.

What I think they'll be doing is a 1 job per class system moving on. I also think that it's possible they'll be adding only enough classes to fit each deity (so 12 total). ACN being the odd one out and aligned with Nald'thal (the twins). I say this because Yoshi is firm on not adding a job to the game just to have the job in the game (like RNG+THF) but rather adding a job to the game to cover a role/niche that is missing. There aren't a lot of niches that I can think of unfortunately. With 3 left to fill (after Ninja), 2 of those 3 already revealed to be a healer and a tank, one of those 2 very likely to be Musketeer the options are pretty limited. I hope they don't stop at 12, though. There are a lot of jobs I'd like to see still.

While I am an advocate for the dual-job system (if you've seen my class/job ideas) and would love Geomancer to come from Conjurer I do concede that while it is possible to rework CNJ while equipped with GEO it will be a lot of work. Seeing as there is an unused door in the CNJ guild I'd rather see an Elementalist class move in and take on the DPS aspect of CNJ and gain the GEO job. I'm afraid that GEO will not be added at all though as it follows a very similar pattern that RNG and THF have set up. Rogue is the re-imagining of Thief, Archer the re-imagining of Ranger and a Conjurer in Cleric Stance is basically a crude Geomancer. As much as I'd like to see Time Mage as well the same can be said with it already being built into THM/BLM/ACN/SCH/SMN (Swiftcast/Lethargy/Aetherial Manipulation/Mana ward/Manawall/Fey Light/Fey Glow/Shining Emerald/Contagion = Quick/Slow/Heavy/Teleport/Warp/MP Shield/Haste/Extend).

[liljramos88]

So no second job for each class! So we may end up with 25 diff classes I kinda find that a but anoying. I do kinda agre like above that the class skills may change depend on the job crystal assuming that each class is going to have a second job. It makes more sence think they have plenty of options giving classes a second job fo example.

Gla/Dark knight just remove the extr enimity
Mar/ Barbarian same as Glad remove extra enimity.
Cnj/ Geo I think it will abuse cleric stance

I also heard that u will see some non traditinol classes

[RickmanUK]

What is Sounded Like (too me anyway) you were saying in the First Past was that the Classes should become More Role-Neutral and the Jobs should be what Defines them... That Doesn't Work for me. If they Did that people would play The Classes they Want Yeah.. But they'd Also Assume that they Can Tank as a Black Mage as they don't have too Worry about it as a Thaumatage...

Maybe i got Crossed Wires on what you Said sure.. But that's how it Came Across too me Ravenguard

Moving Forward I Don't Mind Some Classes having no "Secondary" Roles, Aslong as that is the Design Intent in the First Place. Arcanist Works Great as a Dual-Role Class/Job, Conjurer Wouldn't asmuch, Gladiator i Can See them Adding a "Duelist" too Maybe Drops the Shield in Favour of Say an Parrying Dagger, First Ability would be A Stance that Makes them Strike twice per Auto Attack? Second Maybe a Riposte available if you Parry an Attack?

Mauraders i Could Say Beserker.. but that rings too Close too the Warrior as it is now.. Barely Contained Rage focused on Destruction.

[Ravenguard]

What is Sounded Like (too me anyway) you were saying in the First Past was that the Classes should become More Role-Neutral and the Jobs should be what Defines them... That Doesn't Work for me. If they Did that people would play The Classes they Want Yeah.. But they'd Also Assume that they Can Tank as a Black Mage as they don't have too Worry about it as a Thaumatage...

Sorry for the confusion. Role-Neutral is a kind of a good way to describe it, however this isn't quite what I ment.

Using BLM as an example (though arguable they are a more "locked-in" class as far as their abilities/rotation), the idea would be to have their Job crystals contain more DPS-focused abilities and buffs (Like Flare and maybe Fire III / Ice III / Thunder III) to expand how they DPS and play, and not so much what they current get (Apocatastasis, Freeze, Manawall) as these provide great utility, but don't excel their DPS or change their rotation in any way. If you were to give them a second Job Crystal (another DPS crystal I guess?) they would still feel and play almost identical to Black Mage (minus Flare).

A better example is trying to give Warrior or Paladin a DPS crystal. They have many defensive abilities innately, that were they given competitive DPS to current jobs, they would take substantially less damage and require less healing at the same time (with Warrior arguably less so).

One concept I was brainstorming was a Ranger Job Crystal for Archer. To make this happen they would need to nerf Archer's innate skills slightly, and then rebuff them through the 5 abilities granted by the Ranger Job crystal. This way, if you required utility and group buffing, you can assist your team through your songs as Bard at the cost of damage. However, if you need more DPS (or already have a Bard in the group), you are able to equip the Ranger Job crystal and Pew Pew away for more deeps!