about egi's models

[Dwill]

On a side note I respect your opinion Dwill even if it seems to not be the same of some people in this thread (myself included) but yeah... you seems to get pleasure at trolling people who want to see SMN getting revamps/improvements either on the dot side or/and the egis-look side...

It has nothing to do with trolling. That word has become so horribly misused that it seems everyone has forgotten its meaning. I'm just stating my point of view and said point of view seems to anger people because it disagrees with theirs. That's not trolling.

Everyone wants their opinion to be substantiated, but unless you actually do a player-wide poll, either side guessing at statistics is silly. Since not complaining out loud =/= Happy with the design.
Being shouted down as a 'vocal minority' is so dumb regardless of the topic for this reason.

In a MMO, something that is terribly broken (Warrior on release) or hated to a degree big enough (Atmas) will create waves of complaints. The amount of complaints if something really was broken with summoner would be much worse than they are now. So yes, it is a vocal minority, whether you like it or not.

I don't understand this. Why is telling people that unfeasible changes that could cause more people to be angered than pleased..trolling? I believe that Dwill and I have nothing against QoL changes to any class that doesn't require tripling the work devs already have. Put forth a good idea and you'll find even people like us to agree (and in some cases disagree anyway). Put forth a stupid or wasteful idea and may your god have mercy on your soul.

Exactly. I disagree with some people, agree with some. If someone brings forth genuine, well thought ideas, I might agree with them, even if they warrant a change in playstyle for the class. I will actually respect people with a different opinion (if it looks like they have a clue) than mine. A lot of people should take a page out of Spellbinder's book. While we don't agree on all the same thing for summoner, he at least brings forth his arguments to back up his claims and I respect the guy for it.

Since when replacing a model and its textures is unfeasible and even hard by a dev to a game? It can be done to the customer client by an amateur! And how would it broke the game at a point that people would flame the forum because egis would actually look better? (please don't argue about garuda-egi style, this poor thing look so wrong).
On a side note : Who re you to actually tell people that their ideas re wrongs /unfeasibles or will lead to angers, since neither you nor me have a clue of what will really happen... It's all up to the dev team, all we can do as players is to give "ideas" right here.


Right, would you agree to make garuda-egi actually looking like more garuda or at least being relevant to the main model? And not like a glowing green vulture!
Also, please don't use the "onoes, poor devs got already so many works to do /sadface, let's not make them focus on useless changes /emo-eyes" If they can spare development times for new mounts and fluffy minions design every d*mn patches... They totally can revamp 3 existing models to something better with littles efforts.

It's not a matter of hard, long or costly. Changing something that is aesthetic can be a dangerous thing to do since it can create just as more harm than it would try to solve. Yes there are people who despises the Egis. But there are also people who likes them. Everything here is in the eye of the beholder. Changing something like in game model of summons isn't trivial. You'd need to redesign the whole models, more than likely change their animations. To know what to change them to you have to have meeting with your art team to get their insight, with your regional teams to get the feedback they have in various region, with your lore team to make sure what the other two team have can be implemented with breaking the lore. Once all of this is done, you have to coordinate with your project manager to assign people to the project, assign an time table to said team. Before all of this can begin, Yoshida would have to give his okay for the project.

All of these things share one thing in common: time. With all the projects and ideas Square Enix have for this game, time is an extremely valuable resource. It's one they cannot afford on spending on something that might a specific subset of player happier. For all we know, they could make it even worse than it actually is. Square Enix doesn't want to cross that line, especially since it seems to be working just fine as it is now because let's be honest, it is impossible to please everyone no matter how awesome things might look or how a game might feel.

People have to see this from Square Enix's perspective. Not everything is as simple as it seems, especially in a business like a gaming company.

On my own point of view for the Egis' appearance, I think it would help tremendously if they could have HD textures. I think it would help alleviate a lot of the issue players have over their looks while using a resource that the rest of the game could use as well. The thing is that I think changing them is a waste of the developers' time when it could be used on much better things that affects the playerbase as a whole but in the end, if they do end up changing them, I won't even be mad over it.

"Unfeasible changes" is your opinion, don't forget that, you cannot decide what is wasteful either, you don't know what devs can or cannot do, you don't know how much work it would take to change this. I think it would be better to focus our agreement and disagreements on the change itself and let the real devs worry if it can or not be done.

Read the little wall-o-text above this quote.

And that reply was specifically for Dwill, not Dwill and you, Dwill has pretty obvious posting habits, it doesn't even require a deep analysis to his post history to see it.

Yes, I disagree with a lot of people. No it's not a secret. Yes people hate it. No I don't care because the people's approval is not what I'm looking for.

[winxbloom61]

if people like the way egis are they need to get seriose help because there ugly as hell look at the game everything perfect looking graphics and all then looka t the egis and then go back and play all the other final fantasy's. The people who say they like the egis now are probley the same people who dont even play as a summoner most the time so they just dont care its not that they like the way they look.

in point the people are like i dont care and they are fine the way they are seriosely hasnt played any other final fantasy probley quit wow and saw this was a online game so joined.

[gamesmart]

snip

I don't think we're ever going to change OP's stance on this matter. That said, I still don't mind the look of the egis - aesthetic appeal is subjective, after all, and I'd rather it be "ugly" than lore-breaking. It's not like Ifrit and Titan are all that handsome in their full form anyway. (Yes, I have played previous FF games, and yes, I do play SMN from time to time. That doesn't change my opinion, which is just that - an opinion. And no, I'm fairly certain I don't need help.)

[winxbloom61]

making them look BETTER DOSNT BREAK LORE if you make them as strong as the primals that breaks lore sure but appearces never break lore im sorry but its retarded to say oh if u change the way this look it breaks lore A LOOK HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LORE PERIOD and you joking right Ifirt is sexy as a primal i mean titans ugly but not as ugly as the egi I dont like titan that much myself Id marry Ifirt in a heart beat and be his wife cuz his primal self is sexy as hell

let me make this clear them looking the way they do kinda breaks the lore of summoners in general

sure they shouldnt look as primals in size or power shouldnt

as someone quated the dev we have a percent of there power so in that they should be the size / or ewight of the primal or age (in ramuhs case) however THIS IS NOT A EXCUSE FOR THE DEV TEAM TO BE LAZY AND NOT EVEN TRY TO CREATE A DECENT LOOKING EGI FOR THAT primal 1% of power ive doodled better looking ifirts than the ifirt we got

[Parodine]

In a MMO, something that is terribly broken (Warrior on release) or hated to a degree big enough (Atmas) will create waves of complaints. The amount of complaints if something really was broken with summoner would be much worse than they are now. So yes, it is a vocal minority, whether you like it or not.

However you define a 'majority', I guess. Not quite enough data to be representative either way for me. Certainly not for either of us to say based on anecdotes and vague measurements of forum posts. A bit odd of a point considering most of yours are fairly logical.

I don't think the majority of the complaints are that SMN is 'broken'. Just that, aesthetically, it could use some work. Whether or not the design time eventually deems that worthy is up to people posting and 'making waves' as you say.
But yes, anyone complaining SMN is 'broken' is more than a bit daft. It performs it's job very well.

[Dwill]

However you define a 'majority', I guess. Not quite enough data to be representative either way for me. Certainly not for either of us to say based on anecdotes and vague measurements of forum posts. A bit odd of a point considering most of yours are fairly logical.

I don't think the majority of the complaints are that SMN is 'broken'. Just that, aesthetically, it could use some work. Whether or not the design time eventually deems that worthy is up to people posting and 'making waves' as you say.
But yes, anyone complaining SMN is 'broken' is more than a bit daft. It performs it's job very well.

Majority for me is 51%+ so unless Square Enix does a mass-scale survey and releases their data, most point of view that will be mentioned on the forum will be the one of a vocal minority and yes, I include myself. So the only thing we can rely on is past experiences from this game (and other game) to gauge approximately how bad something is. So if enough people start making waves were we see a different threads about it on a daily basis by different people with a lot of different people's input, then we can safely assume that it would be more than just a few people wanting such a change.

[Atomnium]

huge snip

Holy wall of texts to once again prove how the obvious things you say re rights, it was really not needed and futile.

Man there is no need to explain how a game company is working to justify your cold behavior against people on this forum, they just want to share ideas... They don't need a math lesson or to know how things work in a company/industry or why it could be a bad idea because x or y or #lore (which make me smile, considering what will happen with ninja and lore at 2.4).
And why? Because they don't care, it's not their jobs to know how things can be added ingame and if it's possible, they just toss feelings and ideas.

On a side note, to repeat myself : If they can spare development times for new mounts and fluffy minions design every d*mn patches... They totally can revamp 3 existing models to something better with littles efforts.

On my own point of view for the Egis' appearance, I think it would help tremendously if they could have HD textures.

Alleluia! The man (or woman, no offense, can't know ) finally gave it's opinion, I wonder though, what do you mean with HD textures? more details and clean cuts into pixels?

[Dwill]

snip

A lot of the ideas are the same repeated things that come every time, especially in the Egis appearance thread and we've been given answers two times: No and no.

Alleluia! The man (or woman, no offense, can't know ) finally gave it's opinion, I wonder though, what do you mean with HD textures? more details and clean cuts into pixels?

It is man indeed. And this is what I mean:

http://imgur.com/0008iYl if you want to zoom in.


This is the game at the highest level of graphical detail possible. Some of these textures looks like they were made in MS Paint.

[Atomnium]

http://imgur.com/0008iYl if you want to zoom in.


This is the game at the highest level of graphical detail possible. Some of these textures looks like they were made in MS Paint.

loled at MS paint review but yeah... So true we could even count every pixels :x, that's like ifrit-egi minecraft™ edition.

[Alukah]

Read the little wall-o-text above this quote.

Did, I still reiterate what I said, it's your opinion, you are not a dev so you don't know for sure how much time and effort they would use, you don't know how many people they have assigned to that team, you don't know their current plans, so how about let them decide instead of trying to use it here as an argument based on assumptions.

Yes, I disagree with a lot of people. No it's not a secret. Yes people hate it. No I don't care because the people's approval is not what I'm looking for.

It's not just that you disagree with a lot of people, it's that you seem to only seek topics where you can argue against people even if you are not against the idea itself, this topic is a good example, the first sentence of your last paragraph is the "good" kind of response for this thread, a response that actually addresses the topic

On my own point of view for the Egis' appearance, I think it would help tremendously if they could have HD textures. I think it would help alleviate a lot of the issue players have over their looks while using a resource that the rest of the game could use as well.

But instead of posting that, you started off going on a tangent talking about things you don't know (devs resources) just for the sake for arguing.

It's fine to agree or disagree about the current designs of the summons, but arguing for pages about dev resources you don't know, this is the "obvious" kind of behavior I mentioned, in other threads you do exactly the same, picking on something, even if it's off-topic, just for the sake of arguing.

But hey, if you want to keep your crusade against people's opinions just to start arguments (isn't this a form of flaming?) enjoy yourself.