ATMA nerfing - An addressal to those who object to it.

[Squa11_Leonhart]

I completely agree with your post WRT the Atma nerf objectors, but... This makes no sense in the context of the quote you posted :P. It's 100% irrelevant. For all intents and purposes, Atma drop is true RNG, not PRNG. If you could study every single roll that the servers use and know exactly when it's reseeded, then this would apply. But you can't, so it doesn't.

A computer is not capable of true RNG Lexiii, it is Pseudo RNG.

This is why its easier to win big (and lose big) on digital slot machines vs the old mechanical type.

[Lexiii]

A computer is not capable of true RNG Lexiii, it is Pseudo RNG.

I am a computer engineer. I am more than aware of how PRNG works. The reason your assumption is wrong is that in order to analyze a PRNG for flaws, you need access to every roll. You don't know how many times the server has rolled, when it will roll next, what the results of any of those rolls are, etc. Because of this, it's as good as true RNG, assuming it has equal distribution over time. It's also likely that they are using Mersenne Twister, which as to my knowledge has no major flaws unless you use a low entropy seed.

Also, computers *can* have true RNG, they just need an external source of entropy. The 'safest' sources of entropy are things like radioactive decay or CBR. All Linux machines (which SE's servers likely are) use various things like disk I/O as a source of tamper-proof unpredictable entropy.

[Squa11_Leonhart]

The reason your assumption is wrong is that in order to analyze a PRNG for flaws, you need access to every roll.

No you don't, you just need to know that a seed generated sequence repeats every so often and you can figure a winning scenario out based on drops over a sample time.

Its done with digital blackjack all-to-often.

Being a computer engineer doesn't ultimately turn you into a math genius.





Could you go get employed by AMD though, they need some help making good cpu's again, ever since they fired the NEC guys they aquired its all gone to hell over there :x

[Shougun]

I am a computer engineer. I am more than aware of how PRNG works. The reason your assumption is wrong is that in order to analyze a PRNG for flaws, you need access to every roll. You don't know how many times the server has rolled, when it will roll next, what the results of any of those rolls are, etc. Because of this, it's as good as true RNG, assuming it has equal distribution over time. It's also likely that they are using Mersenne Twister, which as to my knowledge has no major flaws unless you use a low entropy seed.

Also, computers *can* have true RNG, they just need an external source of entropy. The 'safest' sources of entropy are things like radioactive decay or CBR. All Linux machines (which SE's servers likely are) use various things like disk I/O as a source of tamper-proof unpredictable entropy.

Just wait till we find the accurate formulas to each decay (we certainly have great tools to get near but I mean the exact input output, if we can comprehend that information as we are currently evolved.. XD). It's all predetermined, there is no RNG *waves hand in air* muahahahaha.. lol

As per RNG in the game, I don't mind it if there were nets - at least for contents that have high range. (No net needed for dodo tendons). Of course there appears to be no nets for certain contents and I hope SE changes that.

[Lexiii]

No you don't, you just need to know that a seed generated sequence repeats every so often and you can figure a winning scenario out based on drops over a sample time.

*Assuming you know every roll*. Say you're watching the output of SE's RNG from your end. You see a pattern: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. The pattern is obvious. It rolls a 4, you know 5 is next. Except... you get a 1! Someone else on the server got a roll and they stole your 5! What you are proposing is impossible because the server shares the PRNG state with other players. The only way to game it is with an uneven distribution... and even that will not help you in this case.

Agreed about AMD though. <3 them, bought an FX-8350 because $/performance and features is better than Intel, but... they are slacking .

[Squa11_Leonhart]

What you are proposing is impossible because the server shares the PRNG state with other players. .

That can not be the case, it appears to be per player and rolled per player since multiple people in a party completing a fate on the completion of that fate can recieve an atma at the same time, its not just limited to a single person getting it per fate completion. - similarly to how mob loot drops are not just limited to a single person, though are extremely low chance of having 2 people recieve loot from the same mob.

[Lexiii]

That can not be the case, it appears to be per player and rolled per player since multiple people in a party completing a fate on the completion of that fate can recieve an atma at the same time, its not just limited to a single person getting it per fate completion. - similarly to how mob loot drops are not just limited to a single person, though are extremely low chance of having 2 people recieve loot from the same mob.

Wh-what? What you are proposing makes no sense from a programming standpoint. Are you a programmer? Because if not, then I think we're done :P. If so, explain this code: https://gist.github.com/AlexisEvo/6067dc3cf94ab04c2806 PRNG state is shared between all players, yet each scenario handles rolling perfectly. And as I said, even if this wasn't the case, it still isn't exploitable. I don't mean to talk down to anyone, but you clearly seem out of your element here ><.

[Squa11_Leonhart]

Wh-what? What you are proposing makes no sense from a programming standpoint. Are you a programmer? Because if not, then I think we're done :P. If so, explain this code: https://gist.github.com/AlexisEvo/6067dc3cf94ab04c2806 PRNG state is shared between all players, yet each scenario handles rolling perfectly. And as I said, even if this wasn't the case, it still isn't exploitable. I don't mean to talk down to anyone, but you clearly seem out of your element here ><.

Lol, i misunderstood you,

You're talking about the system being shared, and im talking about how an atma can be obtained from multiple people from the same fate. Sorry for that miscommunication.

[Shadex]

I completely agree that the design of the atma/animus/novus nightmare was very poorly done. I myself said ta the hells with it a long time ago and went back to playing normally. I run a FC and don't have the time or the inclination to sit and grind FATEs for hours and hours a day. Funny thing is, like many other decisions SE made, in the end, it was irrelevant because while my time doing other things has netted me only 2 atmas ever it has given me enough tomes to get my i110 weapon and shield which blow the Animus and even the out of the box Novus out of the water. And it didn't cost me my life and soul or millions in gil.

So it is pretty much a matter of whether you want that ridiculous, over lenseflared, glowstick as a symbol. Because that is really all it is. It is a 'hey look at me' I spent a huge chunk of my life farming for something less effective than what you have!' I'm sure I will get mine one day but it will be a happy surprise oh... huh, just got my last atma. And then I will toss the worthless thing on a retainer like so many other classic FF elements that were supposed to mean something.. like our relic gear. *shrug* Game life goes on.

[maxthunder1]

[QUOTE=Shadex;2479795] snip

There is the key word you dont have the time, but thats not really the issue as this quest can be done when you have the time it will just take longer. You dont have to do this all in one sitting, you can still get the drops. No matter how the system is changed it will still take time but if they change the system players may well regret it as it could be even longer or more of a grind.