"To Improve PvP game balance, the ability Cleric Stance will no longer be usable"

[Fyce]

the voice of reason

It would have been... if only it didn't completly miss the point.

RiceisNice: "Removing power from an OP class makes people cry. Plus, Healers shouldn't be on par with DPS."
Hollowed: "Let me tell you why you should die in 1v1 against a healer. Also, penguins don't wear pajamas."

No wonder why there is a debate if people don't understand what is being said.

[RiceisNice]

...

Has absolutely nothing to do with what I said; you're talking about a 1v1 scenario when I was referring to PvP in general. The fact that a class is both capable of healing themselves and their party while deal damage that can be on par with classes who can only deal damage leads to problems in inherent class balance which spans into the grand scheme of things.

This is an issue because of how FFXIV locks your role in based on class and gives them abilities to be capable of soloing (cleric stance to dps). The problem is that the lack of foresight (such as when they implemented frontlines) of how it affects future content they add.

[Atreus]

As a drg the only time a pld is ever able to kill me one on one is if he has HG up

Sorry, only thing that stood out in a wall of text. What kind of scrub ass PLDs do you run into lol... I assume ones that don't use any cooldowns, don't Full Swing, don't pacify, don't stun.. or I guess attack period? 'cause all that is more than enough to murder a melee, and solo a healer (YEAH I SAID IT).

[Dimitrii]

Sorry, only thing that stood out in a wall of text. What kind of scrub ass PLDs do you run into lol... I assume ones that don't use any cooldowns, don't Full Swing, don't pacify, don't stun.. or I guess attack period? 'cause all that is more than enough to murder a melee, and solo a healer (YEAH I SAID IT).

Already explained why melees do not fear paladin stuns, not my problem if you cant read (sounds to me like you run into a bunch of idiot melees who actually let you stun lock em instead of using fetter ward and dismantling you). The fact that you rely on that stun so much as a crutch to kill a melee is precisely the reason you will die to one that knows how to use their pvp abilities. Face it, given those 8 to 12 seconds to attack you unmolested you wil undoubtedly be incurring alot more dmg from the drg (even blowing all ur defensive cooldowns) than you will be capable of dishing out full swing or not (since 15% dmg increase in crap dmg is still crap dmg) to the point that you will NEED to pop hallowed ground in order to survive. The disparity in damage dealt is compounded even further if the melee actually uses slow on you (which for some reason very few ever do). As I said before the only way your gonna kill a drg one on one is when you have hallowed ground available since it will buy you an extra six seconds to handicap the melee in a similar fashion to what your trying to achieve with your stun lock or pacification (which you can just purify off so idk why you even bothered mentioning this since its not a debuff you can place at will). As for killing a healer, I could see maybe killing an unskilled whm but you arent killing any schs as pld solo either.

[Atreus]

Since you tunnel vision on the word stun, that means you can't read either. Stun is a last resort. Period. It's a tool to be used not early, but later down the line. Sorry, but fun fact: Fetter Ward has nothing about pacification, which is a far deadlier weapon than a stunlock. Please, I'm begging you to purify pacification and let me keep Full Swing on you. BEGGING YOU. And lol, I'm starting to think you only fight PLDs that rock them VIT accessories. Bad damage? I don't even know what to say to that ........ 20% from Full Swing, 30% from Fight or Flight, if you're stupid enough to use Blood for Blood (which I assume you are if you're doing any significant damage) then an additional 25%... I'm sorry bud, but fight some real players before you start talking. Bai.

As for the SCH comment, you only get one shot to 1v1 a healer for reasons I'm sure even you understand. The more skilled they are, the more difficult it is. You're wrong again though, it's entirely possible, and I have done it.

EDIT: I should probably conclude this by saying that I don't doubt you're a fine player yourself, but it's no secret that classes are not balanced for 1v1. But the way it is, there's 0 reason for a melee to be taking out any tank right now besides the latter being... extraordinarily bad.

[Hollowed]

Denial

If a healer is out dpsing you then you should level another class. People were crying OP because they could not take down healers without support, which is how it should be. I will say it again so there is no misunderstanding, if you are being out dpsed by a healer then please stop playing your class and level something else P.S. if your entire pt is stupid enough to group up for Holy spam then yes they will out dps you and yes you deserve to die. And actually I was talking about PvP in general, if you want to talk in details lets go. PvP in general = a GROUP FIGHT. Anyone with a brain stem will go after the healers first, as they should those are the ones who will drag the fight out. Being that this is a GROUP fight, PvP in general, whatever you want to call it Healers need to be able to survive more than one person after them, as a SIDE EFFECT they are stronger 1v1 which is where the crying comes into play.

This games PvP is not (at least wasn't) and SHOULD NOT be balanced around any single class, in a group battle it should be balanced around the group as a WHOLE. This CS nerf did two things, and only two. One: It made people like you "feel" better. Two: It upset people who understood their classes and enjoyed it, causing them to lose interest in PvP. Of course since I know some people cannot read I have to point this out as well, I am talking in general as obviously this did not change everyone's desire to play PvP.

P.S. You and a healer go at it, just to test, go at it with no healing at all, pure DPS who can kill who the fastest and tell me a healer is "on par" with a dps, you are not that dense you are in denial if you believe a healer would win, not even close. Do you have any idea how fast a good dps can destroy a healer? I had a BLM kill me in 3 spells, THREE spells, do you know how long it takes for a schs DoTs to kill you or a whm spamming stone II? You cannot seriously believe a healer is on par with a dps when it comes to damage. Take out healing and a healer will always lose.

It would have been... if only it didn't completly miss the point.

RiceisNice: "Removing power from an OP class makes people cry. Plus, Healers shouldn't be on par with DPS."
Hollowed: "Let me tell you why you should die in 1v1 against a healer. Also, penguins don't wear pajamas."

No wonder why there is a debate if people don't understand what is being said.

Actually I was only explaining why a healer was NOT overpowered seeing as many people (hint) do not see the forest for the trees, more than one detail was required (which apparently did no good anyway). Please read my entire post before making remarks, also I was talking to a single person and that was NOT you.

P.S. penguins do wear pajamas :X

[Zyphione]

it's entirely possible, and I have done it.

[ZzPixie]

LOL
rekt!~

[Fyce]

-Snip-

Read your previous post again, then. It was all based on a 1v1 situation... which is irrelevant. I repeat: your whole point about "out damaging a healer" on a 1v1 encounter is irrelevant and out of context.
Besides, you were the only one talking about "healers out dpsing". RiceisNice only said "on par with". And even if healers were, in fact, slightly less capable in terms of DD, nobody said that healers were out dpsing. You either don't read what others said, or you are just putting words in their mouth.

Also, you didn't provide any explanation as "Why Healers were not OP with Cleric Stance?", you just stated "they were not op" like is was a fact, when it was, actuallly, just a mere opinion without any kind logical argument or proof.

There is a 31 pages thread just below, plus this 12 pages one full of people explaining why Cleric Stance was "too much". Read them.

also I was talking to a single person and that was NOT you

Then answer on PM, not on a public forum.
But anyway, ironically, I was answering to Gor myself for thinking that your post was the "voice of reason", I was not talking to you directly.

So, please, apply your own advice to yourself before saying anything to others.

[Atreus]

LMAO, poetry.