"To Improve PvP game balance, the ability Cleric Stance will no longer be usable"

[Dimitrii]

I'd love to see that 8 paladin party make-up in action cause I'm extremely skeptical of that being able wipe anybody. The paladins can only stun lock whoever they target for so long and their attack is so pathetic I cant see them killing anyone before the stun resist kicks in and the dps start to collectively curb stomp these tanks with no healing back up. All a whm would have to do is throw some regen, medica 2 and stoneskin on party before they engage and thats enough already to live through the initial stun lock + the already sad subsequent dmg output paladin throws out. And this is assuming parties dont utilize any form of cc on them whatsoever (sleep, bind, etc). The only stack class setup to be feared is whm or sch (since it takes precise coordination to dismember that is normally not seen in non premade frontline groups) and SE has already cut the effectiveness of that via cleric stance block. So while they are still very hard to kill un-coordinated, they pose next to no threat in wiping your party with all those stacked heals (assuming your party has the standard 2 heal minimum that most groups aim for) resulting in a stalemate. Perhaps an all blm party could also pose a problem if they can get everyone slept and synchronize their flares but they have a much smaller margin for error than heals since melee can wreck em in under 10 seconds if they fail to stick some form of cc on them. Otherwise no one fears an all drg, mnk, pld, war, smn, or brd set up.

[Vaeria]

no. that's not broken. when stacking a full premade of straight any class, it would be able to wipe out any enemy team no matter what classes they have. class domination will always be able to wipe out an entire party. if it were 8 PLDs, 8 DRGs, 8 BLMs, 8 whatever, it would still be able to wipe out any class because its stacking strong class signature abilities that weren't all intended to be there all at one time. 8 BLMs would be able to 100% lockout healers with sleep while they kill their party. 8 PLDs in full dps gear could stunlock out all healers and kill them as well while they kill their party. same with 8 MNKs/DRGs would be able to just zerg down anything because they can out-dps the heals. 8 SMNs of course would be a no-brainer, no heals for anybody with all the dots and garudas.

On a side note, the collective will of 8 plds can also nullify purify, cancel regen, bind from a distance/cancel sprint, and do 1.5k spirits within. Be warned.

[Narukuchan]

You know since WHM's lost this ability, I think black mages need to lose the ability to cast sleep over and over. Since WHM's & SCH's got a setback, so should they.. xD

#killonsightBLMs

[Evangela]

How does it make PvP more balance? now WHM can't do anything but heal.

meanwhile, BLM's AoE Sleep is still overpowered as always.

[Skeet]

I'd love to see that 8 paladin party make-up in action cause I'm extremely skeptical of that being able wipe anybody.

I saw an adder party with 8 PLD's and they all died and couldn't hold a point.

nullify purify, cancel regen, bind from a distance/cancel sprint, and do 1.5k spirits within.

1) Um, every class can purify and it's instant. Really don't know where you were going with this.
2) Because WHM's can't re-cast an instant spell like regen.
3) Bind from a distance? Wrong class buddy.
4) Cancel sprint? All melees can as well.
5) 1.5k Spirits Within is a TAD bit over-exaggerated.

-Don't spout off nonsense; I'm sure that I'm not the only one who found your comment hilarious.

How does it make PvP more balance? now WHM can't do anything but heal.

meanwhile, BLM's AoE Sleep is still overpowered as always.

1) No other classes can heal as hard as WHM's/Sch's. It's logically justifiable. Keyword on logically justifiable. Maybe if a BLM or SMN could heal as good as them then your argument may have some merit.

2) BLM's sleep got nerfed already and by the time a good party got slept once, someone SHOULD always be on a BLM. Once equanimity is done BLM becomes the worst class in the game because they can't do anything if someone is on them.

_____________________

Seriously, to all the people crying about the nerf, WHM and SCH's are still good. If these classes had the time to dps then the other team wasn't good or just flat-out sucked. Learn how to play your classes before you spout off ridiculous biased comments and say how other classes should be nerfed.

[RiceisNice]

This is why you don't hand people so much power in the first place... Take away and it becomes an issue. I never really liked the concept of a WHM or SCH (being healing classes) still be capable of damage dealing to the same degree, if not more effectively compared to...well... damage classes.

[Stormrider]

8 skilled plds would wipe any group except blms. I have seen plds kill solo whms. The problem with pld or war is the skill needed. I don't know when you start to resist stun but the interrupts with stun and silence can stop you from healing.

Also the loss of cleric stance most affects group play against other healers. Its a bit harder to help when you see the other healer at 20%, and you want to make sure they die. There isn't a monk, dragoon, smn, or bard I can't kill. Strangely only bards seem to be the class that try to 1 on 1 healers. Its not my extra dps that makes healers better then dps 1 on 1. Its the gear. If healers were capped at some silly 3k hp then we would get curb stomped.

[Hollowed]

This is why you don't hand people so much power in the first place... Take away and it becomes an issue. I never really liked the concept of a WHM or SCH (being healing classes) still be capable of damage dealing to the same degree, if not more effectively compared to...well... damage classes.

Shush brd, you are not a dps your a harasser in frontlines. Even with this nerf you still will not take down a healer by yourself, the very nature that they can OUT LAST YOU is why people cried OP in the first place, healers were not OP, you were never meant to, and still will not be able to take them down by yourself. The PVP in this game is being balanced around playing as a TEAM, and when you have the holy trinity in a MMO with PVP and no way to control enmity the healer is always the first target, and as such should be able to outlast any SINGLE class, which includes DPS. So if this game is to be balanced around a team based PVP healer will always last longer than a DPS, you will never be able to kill them by yourself, not if they know what they are doing. The only difference now is that killing you takes twice as long, but you will still die none the less, making the job that much more dry and boring, the nature of a healer when you try to 1v1 them should always beat you, no reason it should take twice as long to do it.

P.S. If you don't like dying to a healer 1v1, bring your pt, the healer is stupid to be alone anyway.

[Dimitrii]

8 skilled plds would wipe any group except blms. I have seen plds kill solo whms. The problem with pld or war is the skill needed. I don't know when you start to resist stun but the interrupts with stun and silence can stop you from healing.

This sounds more like 8 extremely skilled paladins can wipe any group of mediocre or poorly skilled players (assuming standard 2 heals 1 tank 5 dps set up). Don't overestimate how effective stun locking is. Trust me I've run into plenty of plds solo on my drg who try that stun locking nonsense on me, you build up resistance extremely quick. Only really the first stun can be considered truly effective as it lasts like 5 seconds or something (and against 8 plds you can just purify that first stun away anyway since you dont need to worry about sleep) but the subsequent stuns last shorter and shorter (third stun i think only lasts 1 sec) and the pld with the animation delay and its already weak attack isnt really doing much dmg to a dps in that span. Not only that but the paladins have to be extremely adept at chaining the stuns together so as to not allow the enemy to counter with their own stun, knockback, sleep, etc (and given that you have no idea when they may decide to pop purify this can be harder than you'd think). As a drg the only time a pld is ever able to kill me one on one is if he has HG up (and even that has a long recast like 6 min iirc), otherwise the burst dmg the job naturally has can normally kill a pld before he can muster the dmg it takes to kill me (have a harder time against war solo tbh). And in a party situation if the party goes in with the standard whm/sch buffs before they engage idk how you are expecting the paladins to kill anybody through those buffs and before the dps and healers start becoming highly resistant or straight immune to the stuns. Maybe if more than one paladin start attacking the healer they could kill them before they start using stuff like benediction, attunement or sacred soil but then that means some dps will be free to deal dmg on them since they arent being stunned. And once all those dps start resisting the stuns it will not take long at all for those paladins to die under the onslaught of incoming dmg with no healing support. Also I'm not sure about the caster classes and bard (since I typically only play drg or whm in frontlines) but god forbid that 8 pld party run into a party where the opposing dps are all melee. All melee would need to do is pop fetter ward and that gives them 8 to 12 seconds to blow all their cooldowns on the paladin while they are still trying to dmg them through all the pre buffs the melees received prior to engaging (assuming they arent still trying to nonsensically spam stun on them while they have fetter ward up). I'm not sure about monk since i dont play it in pvp but drg can inflict extremely severe amounts of burst dmg by blowing all those cooldowns plus the jumps. I'm fairly sure monk can in a similar fashion as well.

[Gor]

Shush brd, you are not a dps your a harasser in frontlines. Even with this nerf you still will not take down a healer by yourself, the very nature that they can OUT LAST YOU is why people cried OP in the first place, healers were not OP, you were never meant to, and still will not be able to take them down by yourself. So if this game is to be balanced around a team based PVP healer will always last longer than a DPS, you will never be able to kill them by yourself, not if they know what they are doing. The only difference now is that killing you takes twice as long, but you will still die none the less, making the job that much more dry and boring, the nature of a healer when you try to 1v1 them should always beat you, no reason it should take twice as long to do it.

the voice of reason