Why shouldn't someone be allowed to watch the cutscenes on first playthrough?

[WellGramarye]

There are more new players now, than the time between launch and now. The game is on several systems and bringing in many new players across all servers. In the last month or so nearly every day I have someone new in DF runs across the board. Sometimes multiple players. SE's advertising has been doing great for the game, and the price point is at a place where many people feel that its worth at least trying.

By the same token, the single player forcing 7 other players to wait is also harassment by that definition.

Again, I'm not talking about harassment though, as verbal abuse and vote kicking someone for watching cut scenes is a ban-able offense. I'm strictly talking about speed running through the dungeon, saying nothing but completing it for them while they watch cut scenes.

[NyarukoW]

..In the last month or so nearly every day I have someone new in DF runs across the board. Sometimes multiple players.

We should help these new players because that is good for all of us. And should they make it to CM or Prae, we should help them celebrate and not rain on their parade by forcing them skip cutscenes and speed run.

....the single player forcing 7 other players to wait is also harassment by that definition.

Because they are watching cutscene so it is harassment? Talk about twisted mentality. Heck in any other context, e.g. waiting in a line, the first person getting served is making everyone else wait so that is harassment? Serisously? Talk about entitlement mentality. You play poker with your friends, one of them hems and haws over deciding what to bet, you call that harassment too?

People waiting is neutral just like the speed run is neutral. Assuming that a single player is forcing other people to wait is just bogus. They can't force anything if they wanted to try. But a speed runner will try and they will try to force people by verbal abuse and vote kick abuse.

[WellGramarye]

We should help these new players because that is good for all of us. And should they make it to CM or Prae, we should help them celebrate and not rain on their parade by forcing them skip cutscenes and speed run.



Because they are watching cutscene so it is harassment? Talk about twisted mentality. Heck in any other context, e.g. waiting in a line, the first person getting served is making everyone else wait so that is harassment? Serisously? Talk about entitlement mentality. You play poker with your friends, one of them hems and haws over deciding what to bet, you call that harassment too?

People waiting is neutral just like the speed run is neutral. Assuming that a single player is forcing other people to wait is just bogus. They can't force anything if they wanted to try. But a speed runner will try and they will try to force people by verbal abuse and vote kick abuse.

Bolded: This is strictly, and unequivocally opinion, and your opinion as it were. Just as it is my opinion that this is not true. The concession of what is for the greater good of the group comes from said group itself. If Party X is 7 vets and 1 newbie, and the vets decide that they want to speed run the newbie has the option to leave or speed run. The majority carries weight in this game.


As for the second, you are taking what I said out of context of the conversation. Your example was a group wanting to do the dungeon and one person "forcing the other players to speed run" was considered harassment. By the same token, one player forcing another group to wait, is just as much harassment, because they are taking their own sense of entitlement to hamper 7 other's sense of enjoyment.

You are also blanketing all speed running players, or players who wish to play efficiently, as those who will verbally abuse, vote kick, and harass others; which is an incorrect assumption, and quite frankly wrong.

[NyarukoW]

... "forcing the other players to speed run" was considered harassment. By the same token, one player forcing another group to wait, is just as much harassment, because they are taking their own sense of entitlement to hamper 7 other's sense of enjoyment....

This is a false equivalence. If the 1 new player can really force people to wait, would any of these thread even exist? They can't harass anyone by making them wait ever. Heck 1 tank or 1 healer can't even do it Prae or CM.

And I am not blanketing all players that speed run sometimes. Heck I've speed run CM and Prae. People that don't force people speed run, well those are not speed runners. They are actually real players that can negotiate and work with other players and do thing other than speed run. The speed run only speed runner will "verbally abuse, vote kick, and harass others." I've been on the receiving end of this as well seen it too often as bystander.

[WellGramarye]

This is a false equivalence. If the 1 new player can really force people to wait, would any of these thread even exist? They can't harass anyone by making them wait ever. Heck 1 tank or 1 healer can't even do it Prae or CM.

And I am not blanketing all players that speed run sometimes. Heck I've speed run CM and Prae. People that don't force people speed run, well those are not speed runners. They are actually real players that can negotiate and work with other players and do thing other than speed run. The speed run only speed runner will "verbally abuse, vote kick, and harass others." I've been on the receiving end of this as well seen it too often as bystander.

This is a blanket statement. Anyway I'm done with this discussion. I've said my piece and I've generously given my own time for both sides of the argument. Unless SE some how enforces a certain type of game play (PS they will not,) then these types of threads will keep being made for the life of the game. It comes down to one sentence and fact:

Either find a group of like minded players, or deal with it.

Your, mine, or anyone else's sense of entitlement is no more important than the other. The only thing that matters in a duty is the completion of the duty.

[NyarukoW]

... The only thing that matters in a duty is the completion of the duty.

That is so wrong. People can have fun wiping together. Completion of duty is secondary to figuring things out together, because people wipe like 50 times or more for 10+ hours of actual in game combat time just to clear T5+, Extreme primals, etc. Finally get the clear "completion of duty" feels good and it is certainly good reason to celeberate, but it is what keeps the group together to work thru it all. Playing for fun and having a good time getting there matter more than the completion of duty. Likewise treating 1st-timers well and bringing them into the community matters way more than completion of duty.

[WellGramarye]

That is so wrong. People can have fun wiping together. Completion of duty is secondary to figuring things out, because people wipe like 50 times or more for 10+ hours of actual in game combat time just to clear T5+, Extreme primals, etc. Finally get the clear "completion of duty" feels good and it is certainly good reason to celeberate, but it is what keeps the group together to work thru it all. Playing for fun and having a good time getting there matter more than the completion of duty. Likewise treating 1st-timers well and bringing them into the community matters way more than completion of duty.

We're talking about Duty Finder Roulette. 99% of the people you interact with, you will most likely never interact with again, because after all, they are on different servers. While this is no excuse to treat them harshly or harass them, it does mean that the objective is to COMPLETE THE DUTY EFFICIENTLY. If you want "community" and to be able to "fail the duty as many times as it takes to complete" then make your own preformed party.

[Mholito]

Either find a group of like minded players, or deal with it.

I am trying to "deal with it" by encourageing the vets to be courteous to the new players and acctually letting them enjoy the story. (The only reason those dungeons are still being run)

[ariaandkia]

Snip

Swift completion refers to actually beating it instead of quitting like people used to do. Before, if someone saw that a player was new, they'd kick the player(s) or leave. They still do, but they now have incentive not to.

[Rex]

OP, you can do whatever the hell you want. If I ever find myself in Praetorium or Castrum, and I see some new players who are there for the first time, I let them watch those cutscenes. It doesn't bother me. Enjoy the game. It really isn't that big of a deal.

You're playing at a time now where once you're done with Prae and Castrum, you won't really need to go back since there's plenty of other dungeons that provide myth and soldiery at a faster rate. Back then, when we had to collect Philosophy Tomes, Castrum and Praetorium were the dungeons of choice because there were no hard mode dungeons and you had to gather that Philo to find gear that would get you through Amdapor Keep and Wanderer's Palace. Otherwise, you had people yelling at you for not having Darklight (lol)

Anyway, my point is, since that's not the case anymore, you shouldn't have to go through Praetorium or Castrum at all really after the first time unless you're helping someone or you get lucky in your Duty Roulette. If you go back in there you'll find out that skipping the cutscenes makes it go much faster. But still, nobody should push new players to skip. A story dungeon is a story dungeon after all. Especially with something so vital to the very end of the base storyline. Those of us that had to deal with the cutscenes back then while farming that place just got annoyed, especially because we didn't have that "skip already viewed cutscenes" toggle in the config yet...so you can imagine how annoying that got. If only we had it back then. Lol. BUT, because of all the complaining then, we have it today. So yay~


All that being said, the one time that I actually was guilty of forcing people to skip cutscenes was when I got trapped in a Praetorium about 15-20 minutes before a server maintenance. That was fun. Everyone understood and it made it a whole different experience trying to race to the end before the servers went down. It was a lot of fun.


TL;DR, don't force new players to skip cutscenes. It's really not a big deal.