Why shouldn't someone be allowed to watch the cutscenes on first playthrough?

[WellGramarye]

No there would be still people complaining about it because they would have been the BRD in this instance. You can never completely please everyone, and there will always be someone to complain about something else no matter how small and petty it is.

[NyarukoW]

No there would be still people complaining about it because they would have been the BRD in this instance. You can never completely please everyone, and there will always be someone to complain about something else no matter how small and petty it is.

What would the BRD in your case complain about? Fact of the matter is, the bard have not come here to complain, which although is not solid evidence, but obviously whatever transpired didn't register with them the necessity, anger, or frustration like what the OP experienced, because you did wait. A little bit goes a long way.

[WellGramarye]

What would the BRD in your case complain about? Fact of the matter is, the bard have not come here to complain, which although is not solid evidence, but obviously whatever transpired didn't register with them the necessity, anger, or frustration like what the OP experienced, because you did wait. A little bit goes a long way.

My point of the little anecdote is that in the end we didn't wait on them, because after awhile waiting 10+ mins on each fight became absurd as they were taking an obscene amount of time to finish the cut scenes when 90% of the group was waiting including the other two new players.

[NyarukoW]

My point of the little anecdote is that in the end we didn't wait on them, because after awhile waiting 10+ mins on each fight became absurd as they were taking an obscene amount of time to finish the cut scenes when 90% of the group was waiting including the other two new players.

No one is asking you or anyone else to wait forever or absurd amount of time. This why I would prefer if the system just disabled cutscene skippig when it give out the 1st-timer bonus. This way people will all go thru the cutscenes at the reasonable amount of the time. Now if there is a straggler gone afk or whatever, you will then start and the 1st-timer will have been given the fair amount of time to go thru the cutscenes.

But you realize this mode of operation requires some waiting and is completely inacceptable to the speed runners. And they will verbally abuse the new player and even vote kick them like what the OP experienced. You do realize what you did is completely different from the situation that requires the 1st-timer to be protected from the abusive speed runners.

[Brine_Gildchaff]

My point of the little anecdote is that in the end we didn't wait on them, because after awhile waiting 10+ mins on each fight became absurd as they were taking an obscene amount of time to finish the cut scenes when 90% of the group was waiting including the other two new players.

And this is why the GMs don't like talking about hypotheticals and making blanket statements, because there's always going to be a rare outlier case happening in the game that they didn't originally intend for. In this case, I think it's reasonable to go on ahead because the bard was taking an extremely long amount of time on each and every cutscene, to the point I'm almost tempted to claim deliberate slowing (perhaps he heard about newbies being rushed through and decided to take "revenge"?) But in general the cutscenes are not -that- long even if you let the voice clips play out in full. (Back before auto-skip was implemented I actually used to listen to the first bit of the cutscene that plays between Ultima phases, mostly because Richard Epcar intoning, "Can his strength... truly be so great?!" is awesome.)

[WellGramarye]

No one is asking you or anyone else to wait forever or absurd amount of time. This why I would prefer if the system just disabled cutscene skippig when it give out the 1st-timer bonus. This way people will all go thru the cutscenes at the reasonable amount of the time. Now if there is a straggler gone afk or whatever, you will then start and the 1st-timer will have been given the fair amount of time to go thru the cutscenes.

You missed the point I was trying to make. This whole ordeal is a community issue. The BRD may just as well have been insulted we didn't wait for them, just as some players are of the "vets" who complete the dungeon for them before they get out of cut scenes. This whole thread is oozing and complaining about sense of entitlement. If your sense of entitlement says "well the BRD took a long time so we don't have to wait for them," then who are you to say that "well you are watching cut scenes which is too long so I don't have to wait for you," or "you aren't watching cut scenes so you should wait for me."

You should express your intent to the group at the start of the dungeon. If the group does not agree you have the option to leave, or follow what the majority of the group is going to do. The new players are not there to disrupt the completion of the dungeon, nor are the other players there to hold the other player's hands. The idea is to complete the dungeon swiftly and competently. You gain bonus reward for doing such because one of the players is new, so that they may get story completion and are able to continue playing the rest of the game. The issue over lore and cut scenes, being a community issue is something the players should sort out themselves before they get out the circle of holding at the start of the dungeon, else you leave and find like minded players. This is why Free Companies and Link Shells exist.

But you realize this mode of operation requires some waiting and is completely inacceptable to the speed runners. And they will verbally abuse the new player and even vote kick them like what the OP experienced. You do realize what you did is completely different from the situation that requires the 1st-timer to be protected from the abusive speed runners.

You added this bit after I replied so I'll address it. Yes I do understand, but if you hadn't noticed I'm playing devil's advocate here. I understand both sides of this argument. Abuse and harassment is against the TOS. Running through the dungeon and not waiting on players to get out of cut scenes and finishing the fights while they are locked out, is not.

[NyarukoW]

... This whole ordeal is a community issue. ... This whole thread is oozing and complaining about sense of entitlement.

If everyone watched cutscenes because skipping was disabled when 1st-timer myth bonus is handed out, it would be obvious who has gone afk or is deliberately taking too long, because everyone is watching the same cutscene taking the same amount of time. There is no slippery slope about whether if the bard took too long and any of that nonsense to worry about. Even now, as it is the cutscenes are of fixed length, when you wait the length of the cut scene that is more than adequate, but speed runners will never even entertain the thought of doing that.

It is only a community issue because speed runners feel entitled to behave badly by verbal abuse and abusing the vote kick. The DF is not a place to speed run by default.

[WellGramarye]

If everyone watched cutscenes because skipping was disabled when 1st-timer myth bonus is handed out, it would be obvious who has gone afk or is deliberately taking too long, because everyone is watching the same cutscene taking the same amount of time.

It is only a community issue because speed runners feel entitled to behave badly by verbal abuse and abusing the vote kick. The DF is not a place to speed run by default.

Then no one would bother with the dungeon because it would not be an efficient form of reward unlike other dungeons, and thus we're back at 2.0 where story dungeons had 2+ hour queue times. Then those who are looking for story and game progression can't progress and eventually stop playing.

Also speed running =/= being a harassing player.

Also "swift completion of objectives." Not sure what your definition of swift is...

[Brine_Gildchaff]

Also "swift completion of objectives." Not sure what your definition of swift is...

Not sure what Square's is either, seeing as how the bonuses aren't actually linked to time in any way...

As for "not efficient", yes it would be. It would still be 100+ extra mythology tomes for a few minutes' extra time spent.

[NyarukoW]

Then no one would bother with the dungeon because it would not be an efficient form of reward unlike other dungeons, and thus we're back at 2.0 where story dungeons had 2+ hour queue times. Then those who are looking for story and game progression can't progress and eventually stop playing.

We will not be back at that, because 95% of the time there will be no 1st-timer player. And the odds of that happening only gets lower. So you can speed run 95% or better of the time, any one will take that gamble for the rewards. The 1st-timers will no longer be a 1st-timer as soon as they clear it.

And the speed run by itself is neutral. The speed runner forcing everyone else to speed run that is player harassment, and that includes verbal abuse to do so as well as abusing vote kicks, as well as whatever wicked means they come up with.