WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A BARD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SING?!

[GalaxyGirl]

I think it's unreasonable that people who don't even main bard underestimate, degrade, and try to act like they're professionals at bard. I need someone here who mains bard, gets above 400-450 dps in every second coil turn and understands the complex part of Bard, and that's the management of rotation and it's priority system, a priority system that has you constantly analyzing what attack to do next, when, and whether to wait or not. You don't just activate buffs mindlessly and spam arrows at the boss. Bard's rotation requires a large amount of attention, they're not a healer that is constantly looking at health bars, their attention is elsewhere, expecting a bard to know when you need a song and that if they don't then they suck, is childish. A good bard is going to focus on making sure they're doing what they do best, and that's get amazing dps in end game raids, fights with mechanics that have you move, etc. I'm not disagreeing with song playing, I think it's viable in emergency use or to buff your casters, but the fact that people assume it should be played without any callouts or requests is selfish and unhelpful to your bard. Also believing that because of low mp/tp, that any wipe is the bard's fault. A bard isn't a trump card that helps people who make mistakes, often I see when people get raised ask for a song, but then guess what, your bard's MP pool is empty because they were playing another song! What are you going to do now? Blame the bard because of your mistake? Staking emergencies on a bard is stupid, they're not your personal carrier. Of course they should play a mages/tp song when they get enough mp, but relying on them because your group makes mistakes is ultimately going to keep you stuck on casual content. Song playing isn't the cornerstone of bard, it's for those occasions where people are in a pinch. (Except for Foe requiem) people who don't main bard please stop pretending song playing is the essence of bard, it's not. It's just a benefit of having a bard. I wrote in here earlier about how it should only be used in emergencies but people misunderstood, I was kind of sad some people were willing to hold back their bards for such stupid reasons and based off knowledge that's outdated. Only a bard who gets 400-450 dps in 2nd coils should respond to me if they have ANY argument with what I've said just now. If you don't understand the hard part of bard don't even begin trying to debate it then. And yes that dps can be achieved in i100-110. If you're not in at least i100 then you probably don't even have the right to judge bard because you didn't put the effort to gear and play the thing in the first place. The lack of gear shows the lack of playtime and effort you made toward the job, and the lack of dps shows the lack of time spent on the job and understanding of bard.

[scarebearz]

I don't understand.

This seems to be a recurring problem...

At first, you said that you prefer a bard who never supports his party and keep DPSing, no matter what happens.

If you actually read my post, you would find that I said I'd rather a Bard doing 300+ DPS than one singing but only doing 150-200 (or less), on primals.

Ideally a Bard that sings at the correct times and does high DPS is better, but that was not my point.

And now, you're just talking about a bard who won't sing for someone who made an "unreasonable amount" of mistakes?

For this point, we were talking about from a healer/raising point of view, not Bard/Singing...

Please try and keep up with your own posts at least. O.o

[Aegis]

You are contradicting yourself here.
If there is a phase in a fight when you can't DPS, allowing TP users to recover a bit, then same goes for the bard.
If you sing for TP during these phases, lowering your damage doesn't matter since you can't DPS anyway.

So, a good bard would take this opportunity to do a TP song to give a few ticks of TP regen for the team, and then turn it off when the "invulnerability phase" ends.

Actually, (and this was a few pages a go, so you're forgiven for not noticing it) I mentioned that during invulnerability phases I use Mage's Ballad, better than doing nothing.

WALLOFTEXT hits you for 99,999

*eyesbleed*

[scarebearz]

gets above 400-450 dps in every second coil turn

I'd be interested to see your parse of above 450 as a single Bard, for any turns you have done this on.

P.S. I do agree with you post.

[GalaxyGirl]

Actually, (and this was a few pages a go, so you're forgiven for not noticing it) I mentioned that during invulnerability phases I use Mage's Ballad, better than doing nothing.



*eyesbleed*

Haha, my wall of text doesn't have any loopholes so at least we get to see what these people who've barely begun to touch bard and what it really can do, will have to say.

[GalaxyGirl]

I'd be interested to see your parse of above 450 as a single Bard, for any turns you have done this on.

I was talking about the general area between 400-450, never have I gotten above 450 lol.. But I realize why you read it like that, I meant above 400, then gave the general area the dps should be in

[Moqi]

If you're not in at least i100 then you probably don't even have the right to judge bard because you didn't put the effort to gear and play the thing in the first place.

And yet the go-to response to this thread has been "I wouldn't need to sing if you didn't suck". Seems an awful lot like judging to me. Lmao get over yourself, it's a videogame class not some arcane practice for the enlightened few.

[Fyce]

If you actually read my post, you would find that I said I'd rather a Bard doing 300+ DPS than one singing but only doing 150-200 (or less), on primals.

Ideally a Bard that sings at the correct times and does high DPS is better, but that was not my point.

I didn't mention any numbers in my first post, and it was on purpose.
Of course I would never want a 150DPS bard in my team. But you took an extreme example of a bard doing only AA and a few skills every now and then.
When I said "poor DPS" I meant "someone who doesn't keep track of his buffs most of the time and miss some part of his rotation and/or take a long time to start attacking".

In short: would you prefer a Bard with 400 DPS and a perfect rotation, but who never uses his songs (no matter the circumstances, even if it leads to a wipe), or a 300-350DPS bard who is perfect when it somes to managing his songs and knows when to put them and for who?

You took an extreme example from the start. As I said: the world is not black or white.

For this point, we were talking about from a healer/raising point of view, not Bard/Singing...

Please try and keep up with your own posts at least. O.o

No, we were not "talking" about that. I was just using the healer reference to compare it directly to the bard. You though that my post was only about the healer, when it was just a mere example to prove my point about the bard.
You were the one going off the rails.

"If you support a player as a healer, why aren't you doing it with a bard if the circumstances need it?" was my point. You just went on the healer part only.

---

Actually, (and this was a few pages a go, so you're forgiven for not noticing it) I mentioned that during invulnerability phases I use Mage's Ballad, better than doing nothing.

Maybe, but as for the post I quoted from you, you actually said "singing a song in this case [invulnerability phases] lowers the overall party DPS by lowering your own", which is the opposite as "throw a song during those phases to grab a few ticks".
So, yeah, as I said, a contradiction.

But whatever.

[GalaxyGirl]

And yet the go-to response to this thread has been "I wouldn't need to sing if you didn't suck". Seems an awful lot like judging to me. Lmao get over yourself, it's a videogame class not some arcane practice for the enlightened few.

If you're going to judge my class, then I shall yours,

As someone who doesn't do anything except keep people from dying, which is a bare minimum to the group effort, then I would not even begin critiquing someone who not only is one who usually is forced to handle most mechanics, but also has to do high dps and help the group with songs in emergencies. See it isn't so nice, you didn't bother reading my post in its entirety, did you? It is someone else's fault if a song is needed period, which is fine by all means, it's not an excuse not to play songs, but believing that bards will always be there to bail you out with their songs is a bit optimistic isnt it? Rather it's unrealistic. Quit living this fantasy, if the bard has no mp to help you because someone asked for a song earlier, then there's nothing you can do, and it isn't the bard's fault, point being bards aren't your saving grace during an apocalypse run.

[scarebearz]

I didn't mention any numbers in my first post, and it was on purpose.
Of course I would never want a 150DPS bard in my team. But you took an extreme example of a bard doing only AA and a few skills every now and then.

You took an extreme example from the start. As I said: the world is not black or white.

i90-110 Bards doing 150-200 DPS on primals in DF is not an extreme case at all, like I said, so DF some HM's and you'll see it's VERY common.

It's actually less common to see Bards doing 300+ for DF Primals.