WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A BARD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SING?!

[Snugglebutt]

Skill/gear trumps a lot of things. This is obvious so idk why you are belaboring the point. It doesnt change two facts:

1) brd's unique role is songs

2) if songs arent required, no need for bard, as other dps classes are stronger

You can throw all the silly insults, snickers, anecdotes you want...but it doesnt change those facts. Brd is a support dps class Without support its just gimped dps.

I made my comment "idiot proof" for you. If do not like people being condescending towards you how about you refrain from being so towards them. If you rely on your stance of everything being equal your relying on a flawed perspective. Other DPS classes are not always stronger because of the very thing I mentioned which you are complaining about my mentioning which is a DPS class is only as strong as the persons ability to use that class. Your using a generalization that any other DPS class will be better than a bard but fact and reality is that it is not true in game where it actually matters. If you stop approaching this from a flawed angle, I will stop pointing out that your doing so.

[Lux_Rayna]

By all means carry on. If you dont get it now you never will. Mathematically your party is better off with you playing the appropriate song. If youd rather try to top the dps meter go for it.

Its a game after all play as you wish. Just understand what youre giving up. Also condescending doesnt bother me. Just reminding you that you were the one who made the attacks personal. I was being general.

[Nandalowell]

I wanted to be a ranged DPS class, like using bows and like the look so I picked archer, Squeenix added the annoying support skills to my advanced job when I just wanted more personal DPS benefits for advanced class on it. If you care so much about what songs are being played then make your own bard and play that 24/7 instead of making other classes and whining about what songs are being played because you can't even manage your own resource pools. I have never had anyone complain about my song usage but if they did start whining I would ignore them. I subscribe and play this game for my enjoyment not yours and I do help you with songs when I feel the need not when you do. If you do not like that then go cry me a river. Unless your not only willing to pay my subscription fee but also send me a pay cheque every month, you do not get to decide how I use the character which I pay to play.

This says it better than I could have.

I play bard because I like bard. I may not be as good as you want me to be and sometimes I may need you to ask me to sing a song..(/gasp!) But I'm not about to pick up a job I have no interest (/coughblackmagecough) in playing just because you don't like how I play DPS.

[Urielparadox]

So you play songs when you want to but not when they are needed. That means your lazy and you can be kicked wi th vote dismiss as SE rules. As you should be. Being lazy is never a legitimate excuse.

[Snugglebutt]

By all means carry on. If you dont get it now you never will. Mathematically your party is better off with you playing the appropriate song. If youd rather try to top the dps meter go for it.

Its a game after all play as you wish. Just understand what youre giving up. Also condescending doesnt bother me. Just reminding you that you were the one who made the attacks personal. I was being general.

You really think being condescending to everyone who plays a certain class is less of a problem than being condescending to one person? I pointed out the error in how you are approaching this issue, if you do not realise that then there is no hope for you. You can rely on your min/max perfect world spreadsheet numbers and your flawed generalization to your hearts content but it remains flawed, in game, where it actually matters.

[Snugglebutt]

So you play songs when you want to but not when they are needed. That means your lazy and you can be kicked wi th vote dismiss as SE rules. As you should be. Being lazy is never a legitimate excuse.

I personally stated I play song's when I think they are required. When I think they are required is when I think they are needed.

Just because some random person in the party who does not have bard or is not playing one decides they think a song is needed despite me thinking they are wrong is not against the rules, is not lazy and is not vote kick worthy. If I see a lot of the casters especially healers running low on MP I will give them MP regen, the same applies to TP users, if there are a lot of DPS casters in the group for example I would probably throw a resistance debuff song out there but make no mistake it is my choice to make, how to prioritize my limited mana pool for songs and decide when it is needed based on what I see in the groups status not some other random persons choice.

If you feel you need a song to be played that is currently not being played because I do not feel it is needed then ask me to play it and I will either play it or not based on whether or not I agree. If you want complete 100% control over how I play and what I do then pay my subscription fee for me and send me a pay cheque for every dungeon or instance we run where you dictate how I play instead of me. It is most often not due to being lazy when you do not see a song you want up and running, your probably just wrong in whether or not it is needed. The bard makes the call on whether or not they think it is required and if you think they are wrong then speak up and ask for it politely.

This does not mean however you will get the song if the bard thinks your wrong especially when your the only person who did not manage your TP or MP but everyone else did and my MP is needed for a different song required by more people than just you. The only type of exception to this is if it is a 4 man group and your the only healer who burned through your MP too fast in which case a single person would benefit more than the rest as an example but more often than not just because you used all your TP or MP, your still not the priority for my songs since most often a song that benefits many is more important than a song that benefits just you and I will make that choice not you.

[Lazearus]

As I said, not everything is equal and not everyone is perfect. You cannot use the excuse 'everything being equal' which my comment refers to in regards to the other person I was responding to because it never is, everyone has a different efficiency and ability to use their individual classes and characters. You said it yourself in your own examples people not doing everything right and fact is no-one I have ever come across always does everything right all of the time. To dismiss and not group with someone based on their version of DPS class instead of how good they are at said class will lead to failure more often than the other way around.

A perfect case can be achieved in a coil static, but yeah, what you're saying is right as well.I just reread Lux-Rayna's post again and I agree with you that we shouldn't just throw a bard out just because it will be outperformed by other dps classes in a min/max scenario. Bards still produce decent dps, and even more so when they foe in a party having blm/smn.






I would really want to throw away bards who do not sing at Swiftsong/Foe in parties having spellcaster dps though. If there's nothing nearby that would aggro them while their foe is on, it's just plain laziness to not sing it for the smn/blm/holying-whm. For ballad, it's a more iffy case since I regulate my own MP as a whm and won't need it.

[Lux_Rayna]

You really thing being condescending to everyone who plays a certain class is less of a problem than being condescending to one person? I pointed out the error in how you are approaching this issue, if you cannot except that then there is no hope for you.

I also play that class. Making a deprecating comment about a class is certainly better than resorting to personal insults. I understand that you took it personally, but remember that I did not insult you. That was a line you crossed all by yourself. But I suppose its normal for ppl to result to personal attacks. Fear not, I am not offended in the least. Youre forgiven!

Theres really no flaw in numbers. Your party does more dmg and runs more efficiently when you sing the appropriate song. If you want to sacrifice that for your personal dps output thats okay. Just know that is what youre doing.

A perfect case can be achieved in a coil static, but yeah, what you're saying is right as well.I just reread Lux-Rayna's post again and I agree with you that we shouldn't just throw a bard out just because it will be outperformed by other dps classes in a min/max scenario. Bards still produce decent dps, and even more so when they foe in a party having blm/smn.

Even Im not saying that. A bard is designed to support via song. If you aren't going to support via song, you aren't doing your job. If you aren't doing your job, then you aren't helping your party. Sometimes its okay to be lazy. I'm not singing a song for a three trash mob pull, just like a tank may not grab hate for a trash mob pull. That doesn't change the fact that my job is to provide song support while shooting stuff, and the tank's job is to tank.

[scarebearz]

What's worse than a Bard playing no songs in DF is... a Bard playing songs at the wrong time! xD

When I'm doing HM primals on my WHM, it's very often that a Bard will just start playing Ballad for no reason at all, lowering their already dismal DPS (Bards can do great DPS... most don't!).

All HM's can be solo healed easily without Ballad, it's just a waste of time/DPS.

[Coatl]

Playing a song isn't beneficial in every scenario. Even Foe which boosts caster's DPS, if you are not at the part of a boss fight that is the DPS check then you really aren't helping out that much. For example, you should make sure to have Foe Reqium available in Ifrit's Nail Phases, Ramuh's Add phases, T6's Rafflesia's last phase, etc. I would be very bothered if a bard decided to play a little jig and not have a song to play when the party needed it.

And saying Bard is lackluster in DPS and only makes up for it in song is a huuuuuuge stretch. Bard has so much utility in fights like Ramuh. Its mobility and flexability is the reason it is always picked to be the orb cleaner. No other DPS class could maximize its DPS and handle a mechanic. And T7 is even more dependent on Bard for kiting the Ranauds.

Bard is irreplaceable as a class, for good and bad.