"To Improve PvP game balance, the ability Cleric Stance will no longer be usable"

[Raxion]

Healers being able to use CS in PvP was a bit ridiculous, especially for SCH. It's already impossible to kill you 3v1, the fact that you could win 2v1 fights against DPS was just obnoxiously imbalanced.

I went into frontlines on my SCH, and saw absolutely no reason to go back in as my SMN afterward. I get synced to i80 anyway, so it's not like having better gear on my SMN meant anything. The only thing I missed out on was a DPS pet, and Fester. That was easily worth sacrificing to be able to win small battles alone, while being immortal.

[YuriRamona]

Massive heals? Check. Survivability? Check. Awesome DPS? Check.Uh.. yeah, healers were cruisin' straight to the nerf bat. You can't be everything, otherwise why play anything else?

SCH was extremely unbalanced and extremely overpowered in PvP. The only reason ppl would cry about this is because they lost their superman powers and are equal to everyone else now. (imo SCH is still quite an overpowered healer compared to WHM in PvP)


I've seen SCH's do 100,000 DAMAGE in a frontlines match, glad this $#!% got nerfed.

I was in a 8 man WHM party just yesterday. 4 of us had Cleric Stance up. We pretty much overran any flag we went to, even one who had Flames and TA already duking it out. Steamrolled everyone involved and took the flag.

Cleric Stance + Holy & Stone II was a dangerous thing if used correctly.

Cleric Stance just made it laughably easy for very good players and teams to steamroll very bad players. Ultimately, the change will level the playing field.

However, it was never "overpowered", unbeatable, or uncounterable.

Here's how healers in Cleric Stance were countered: ignore them and focus down the healers one at a time.

Then, the Cleric Stance healers simply become BLMs with half the attack potency, and a ticking Regen/Medica II/Embrace if they're lucky.

It's really that easy. But, because people often lack the ability to understand that simple tactic, they would get dominated.

[FaizeD]

Healers being able to use CS in PvP was a bit ridiculous, especially for SCH. It's already impossible to kill you 3v1, the fact that you could win 2v1 fights against DPS was just obnoxiously imbalanced.

I'm sorry, but if 3 DPS couldn't take down a lone healer pre-nerf then those DPS must have sucked.

[YuriRamona]

Healers being able to use CS in PvP was a bit ridiculous, especially for SCH. It's already impossible to kill you 3v1, the fact that you could win 2v1 fights against DPS was just obnoxiously imbalanced.

I went into frontlines on my SCH, and saw absolutely no reason to go back in as my SMN afterward. I get synced to i80 anyway, so it's not like having better gear on my SMN meant anything. The only thing I missed out on was a DPS pet, and Fester. That was easily worth sacrificing to be able to win small battles alone, while being immortal.

If you're having trouble 2v1 a SCH, then you have serious problems with your rotation. Their abilities buy them an extra 40 seconds of survivability, if they use ALL of them. Attunement for 10 seconds, Surecast for another 5, Swiftcast for another 5, and Equanimity for 20.

A DPS should be averaging damage potency in the range of 200-250 every 2.5 seconds. If you also pop your PvP abilities and cooldowns, you should be bumping up to 300-350 in a 30-45 second burst.

Once a SCH runs out of Equanimity, Surecast, and Swiftcast, they're toast. A Roused Whispering Dawn with consistent Embrace is still only about 560 potency worth of heals every 2.5 seconds.

A decent pair of DPS should easily eclipse that with 650-700 potency worth of damage. At the same time, the SCH is pulling out a whopping 150 potency in damage from a combination of Aero, Bio, and Ruin II.

The only argument to be made here as that the skill requirement for SCH to pull that survivability is very low, whereas you need to be somewhat decent at DPS in order to reach the 600-700 potency threshold. So, it's not an issue of SCHs being overpowered, but that DPS are underskilled or geared.

[Zyphione]

Did we not discuss skill levels already in Aetherflow thread?

These threads are so repetitive in opinion for new change..

[Adrian74]

I don't know if feeling happy because someone took the bothering of reading this and moving to PvP, or sad because this section is clearly less checked than general discussion, so less people to explain their point of view, less importance, ignored.

Anyways!...

Honestly, the few endgame healers I knew who enjoyed healing in PvP have all lost interest along with myself. It's PvP... and we now do effectively no damage. Perhaps you say "But Nom's, you're a healer! You're job is to heal!" No. My job is to keep the party alive. Something I can do fully well while DPSing. Now, I can heal and do a TINY amount of utility. I've been reduced to turning people into damage sponges.. and matches will turn into more of a match of endurance than skill. SE really has no idea what they're doing when it comes to PvP. Could have just nerfed Holy's potency (while in Wolves Den/Frontlines) and the problem would have been solved.

Totally agree with you. The art of healing here, in FFXIV, has always been, and yet in PvE stills being the art of maintain the people alive while dealing the max DPS you can. (In my honest nooby opinion. Why else would we have a symbolic super skill like cleric stance? And don't say me 'for soloing'. )
Now btw, battles are going to be, as you said, more annoying long stuff, and boring, than skill stuff, healers will just be boring-overhealing and it is going to take years to kill people, really...What's next? also nerf the healing output?

Honestly, I would have prefer a damage reduction of the skills, than killing cleric stance, because using cleric stance is art.

damn now even less healers in FL. zzzz

One less here, yep... Will have to go with ... Uhm... My DPS or... My DPS with more vit (Aka, tanks)...

This thread is pointless.

SCH was extremely unbalanced and extremely overpowered in PvP. The only reason ppl would cry about this is because they lost their superman powers and are equal to everyone else now. (imo SCH is still quite an overpowered healer compared to WHM in PvP)

I've seen SCH's do 100,000 DAMAGE in a frontlines match, glad this $#!% got nerfed.

There are classes that can be used awfully bad (most of DPS, especially in PvP) and classes that can be used very well. And the differences in some of those classes when using bad and well are different depending, scholar is one of those classes that has a huge different between using it good or bad. Especially only-healing scholars in my opinion. (Or only attacking ones, you need a balance). It wouldn't be so weird to see a brutal damage output with a sch that is all the time attacking or know when are the best moments for start attacking, spreading poisons, etc...

Cleric Stance just made it laughably easy for very good players and teams to steamroll very bad players. Ultimately, the change will level the playing field.

However, it was never "overpowered", unbeatable, or uncounterable.

Here's how healers in Cleric Stance were countered: ignore them and focus down the healers one at a time.

Then, the Cleric Stance healers simply become BLMs with half the attack potency, and a ticking Regen/Medica II/Embrace if they're lucky.

It's really that easy. But, because people often lack the ability to understand that simple tactic, they would get dominated.

+1, it's all I have to say about this. ^^

[Omonom]

Honestly, I would have prefer a damage reduction of the skills, than killing cleric stance, because using cleric stance is art.

Agree wholeheartedly with that. Nerf holy potency in frontlines/wolves den and adjust SCH potency numbers. They shouldn't make a change like this until it's actually ready... they just crippled people who actually know how to play healer well.. and made them extremely disinterested in playing.

It's about as lazy of a 'fix' as their solution to housing (same cost, same everything.. just adjusted permissions on who could buy land... and put it off for months...)

I had a lot of faith in this game since the later days of 1.0 but this patch makes me really question the devs direction. Won't be hopeful for future patches until they turn things around a bit.

Also pretty lame this was moved... it's a rather big patch change that I think could use more discussion.

[Adrian74]

Alas.... Healers who knew how to perfectly balance Cleric Stance are only 15% of healers database... This won't affect only-healing ones, or those who did some ticklish attacks without cleric...

And sadly all those bothered by that 15% of healers that knew how to use cleric stance are just too much, glad that most of them abstained to post here about "This is good" "it balances everything" "I got pwned by a healer so this is nice" etc.

As you said, it is kind of a lazy patch in that matter... And lazy patches can be dangerous sometimes, this killed all my interest already to go PvP as healer... And I only liked to go PvP as healer because was only interesting class to go PvP... Tank and DPS are the same, but with different rotations, so.... Now healing doesn't require any proficiency, it is uninteresting, lacks of the difference between those who use it very well and those who use it very bad, if you have extra time between heals you can just... Look, over heal, or... Deal useless damage. I'd prefer a nerf in the damage outputs as I said, because that way you'd still having to change to cleric stance and remove cleric stance, balancing.

[Blubbers]

The worst part of this will just be nobody is going to want to play healer anymore. I've already joined plenty of games where there's a group of 8 dps and even though several had 50 healers unlocked they said they didn't want to heal and their group just ended up getting smoked. Now healers are going to be even less fun to play I can't imagine this type of situation will get any better.

[Tridus1x]

Massive heals? Check. Survivability? Check. Awesome DPS? Check.

Uh.. yeah, healers were cruisin' straight to the nerf bat. You can't be everything, otherwise why play anything else?

Marauder insane DMG? Check Self Healing? Check Massive Surivability? Check.

I thought you wanted balance.