[dev1008] About Jumping

[Abriael]

Theres a simple solution to jumping that would please everyone, context sensative jumping, meaning you can only jump when and where the game tells you that you can. For instance if you are standing by a small ledge an icon map appear on screen indicating that you can jump down.

It can actually be implemented in an even more convenient way. If you are on a ledge, you can just walk against the edge and the game will make you jump automatically. It's more convenient and more natiral than having to open the menu (or press a key) to jump.

The best thing of contextual jumping is that they can create dedicated, context-sensitive animations for it, instead of the random, generic jumping animation that you see in other MMORPGs, that looks horrible.

[Aldwin]

Theres a simple solution to jumping that would please everyone, context sensative jumping, meaning you can only jump when and where the game tells you that you can. For instance if you are standing by a small ledge an icon map appear on screen indicating that you can jump down.

I personally have been voting for a jump. I don't think its by far the most important issue the game has right now, but it seems the most popular topic on the forums.

But this idea to me (context sensative jumping) would be worse than having no jump at all. Why? I want to be controlling my character, not clicking yes or no, or opening up a menu to initiate the action ( try /sit, whose bright idea was it to add an icon popup after sitting so you can open your main menu, then choose to stand?)

I have read so many of these posts, but one thing I don't understand. The people wanting jump, right now can't jump in the game. The people against, can't jump either. If they did add a jump, the people wanting it, could jump. The people against it, woudn't have to.

[Abriael]

I personally have been voting for a jump. I don't think its by far the most important issue the game has right now, but it seems the most popular topic on the forums.

But this idea to me (context sensative jumping) would be worse than having no jump at all. Why? I want to be controlling my character, not clicking yes or no, or opening up a menu to initiate the action ( try /sit, whose bright idea was it to add an icon popup after sitting so you can open your main menu, then choose to stand?)

I have read so many of these posts, but one thing I don't understand. The people wanting jump, right now can't jump in the game. The people against, can't jump either. If they did add a jump, the people wanting it, could jump. The people against it, woudn't have to.

The people against it would still be on the receiving end of the many ways to abuse jumping that are present in games that inclue it.

Context sensitive jumping doesn't necessitate clicking yes/no, or opening a menu. It can simply be initiated by walking to a certain area, or against a ledge. How is less "control" (you decide to walk there, the game doesn't walk you there against your will) than walking there and pressing a key to manually jump?

[DNO]

A jump feature isn't really nessecary in my opinion. The game is designed to work without it.

Yes but its not designed well without it. Jump is a great feature and will work well in this game because we can jump over those invisable cliffs that seem to stop my character every 2-3 seconds

[Abriael]

Yes but its not designed well without it. Jump is a great feature and will work well in this game because we can jump over those invisable cliffs that seem to stop my character every 2-3 seconds

To fix a wheel, you don't need to buy a new car. Instead of taking a roundabout approach implementing a new function to get around a flaw of the game, they should just remove that flaw. IE: remove the invisible walls and allow players to just drop down.

[Aldwin]

The people against it would still be on the receiving end of the many ways to abuse jumping that are present in games that inclue it.

Context sensitive jumping doesn't necessitate clicking yes/no, or opening a menu. It can simply be initiated by walking to a certain area, or against a ledge. How is less "control" (you decide to walk there, the game doesn't walk you there against your will) than walking there and pressing a key to manually jump?

Which cliffs, rocks, ledges, docks, fences ect.. exactly would you be able to "auto-jump" off of and which would you not? My thought process when I'm playing the game, and maybe I'm alone amidst the people wanting jump with this, I see an object, I might be able to jump it, if its he right height. I see a cliff, I can jump off it. Even if there's a bottom below I can't see with distant drawing turned on. With context sensitive jumping, who knows where I could jump and where I can't. That for me is the main reason. I want to feel in control.

If so many are afraid of seeing others jumping around, as if that in some way mocks you in game (I'm sorry for you if it does), than forget the whole idea and lets move on. I played xi for 6 years, without a jump. Sure there was plenty of times I wish the game had it, but I managed without it.

I would like a jump, but this feature alone isn't going to decide whether I will continue to play the game. If a jump were added, I want it under my control.

[Aldwin]

The people against it would still be on the receiving end of the many ways to abuse jumping that are present in games that inclue it.

Context sensitive jumping doesn't necessitate clicking yes/no, or opening a menu. It can simply be initiated by walking to a certain area, or against a ledge. How is less "control" (you decide to walk there, the game doesn't walk you there against your will) than walking there and pressing a key to manually jump?

I've said something similiar in other jump posts, but I"ll say it again here. Why make it so you can walk around? Why not just choose a point on your map, and if the game allows you to move in that direction, it does so for you? You see an enemy, you choose to attack it. Your character automatically walks over there and engages. You could even take it a step further and say you just watch the outcome, without any interactive input from yourself at all.

These are extreme examples yes, but I feel they imply the very reason why I'm against a context sesntive jump.

[Abriael]

Which cliffs, rocks, ledges, docks, fences ect.. exactly would you be able to "auto-jump" off of and which would you not? My thought process when I'm playing the game, and maybe I'm alone amidst the people wanting jump with this, I see an object, I might be able to jump it, if its he right height. I see a cliff, I can jump off it. Even if there's a bottom below I can't see with distant drawing turned on. With context sensitive jumping, who knows where I could jump and where I can't. That for me is the main reason. I want to feel in control.

If so many are afraid of seeing others jumping around, as if that in some way mocks you in game (I'm sorry for you if it does), than forget the whole idea and lets move on. I played xi for 6 years, without a jump. Sure there was plenty of times I wish the game had it, but I managed without it.

I would like a jump, but this feature alone isn't going to decide whether I will continue to play the game. If a jump were added, I want it under my control.

It's not a matter of mocking. It's a matter of visuals. I wouldn't necessarily feel "mocked" if it started to rain green pigs with pink polka dots, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be pleased by the visuals.

There are several ways to make context sensitive jumping visually detectable, one has been implemented to a very nice effect in Final Fantasy XIII (with very nice animations by the way, that are way, way better than the horrible, generic, and most of the time context inappropriate generic jump animation you see in many MMOs).

Context sensitive jumping can be applied to basically every area that you listed. Even more, it can be applied to MORE areas than generic jumping. Just to make an example, if you find a tall cliff (taller than your character), you can't get over it with a generic jump.
With a context sensitive jump, your character can (for instance) grab the ledge and pull himself up, or sommersault over the ledge, or many other solutions paired with the proper animation related to the context.

The only thing generic jumping is "superior" for, is to randomly jump around where there's no reason or feature to jump. Which IMHO, can and should stay out of the game.

Why make it so you can walk around? Why not just choose a point on your map, and if the game allows you to move in that direction, it does so for you? You see an enemy, you choose to attack it. Your character automatically walks over there and engages. You could even take it a step further and say you just watch the outcome, without any interactive input from yourself at all.

There will always be a degree of automation in MMORPG games (at least until someone decides to implement some kinect-like crap). Don't kid yourself thinking that pressing one more key puts you that much more "in control"

[Aldwin]

There will always be a degree of automation in MMORPG games (at least until someone decides to implement some kinect-like crap). Don't kid yourself thinking that pressing one more key puts you that much more "in control"

For me, it does. Maybe not for you (or else we probably woudln't be arguing).

I"m going to put myself out in the line of fire here, since a lot of ff fans seem to skorn what I'm about to talk about. Everything I'm about to say is pure opinion.

I played wow for 3years, and xi for 6 years. I played xi, before wow. One thing I enjoyed about wow over xi, was my feeling of freedom. I felt like I was in complete control of my character. It responded faster, I could move almost anywhere, and if I couldn't, it was because a wall, cliff or rock was higher than I could jump. The feeling of having more freedom with my character made the game thrilling for me. In that sense (I know I'm going off topic here) I wish the entire combat design was faster, more fluid and restricted more by my reflex response time than me waiting for slow character animations (xivs combat).

Before I get flamed for mentioned w.o.w. on these forums, let me say this. FFXI is to date, my favorite game of all time. I've been playing games since probably 1985 (call me old). I have played almost every FF game through, multiple times. My reasons maybe different than mosts though. Personally I think FFXI itself was a very horribly designed game. The ui was terrible, combat was slow I could go on for a while. But the comunity and teamwork the game forced you into, meeting new people making new friends, mostly just the people that were playing it (community again) made it the best experience out of any game i've ever had. I would say the exact opposite of wow. The games design is amazing, the community is very horrible.

Flame away.

[AtlasNR]

I am personally ALL FOR dedicated jump commands. There are far too many impediments in the game that should not exist. Small 2 foot drops and I can't fall down them, rather I have to take a long, obscure route to get where I need to go. The same goes for small cliffs or ledges. I should be able to jump up them.