The Ultimate Black Mage Resources with Damage Calculator

[Numenor1379]

Apologies if this was covered recently, and I simply didn't see it.

I seek clarification on your rotations. You list T1 + B1/Scathe as being best. However, if you have the requisite 251 peity, then you can easily maintain T2 + B1/Scathe.

T1 lasts 18 seconds, T2 is 21 seconds. With your weights, I end up with a BiS resulting in 537 Spell Speed, or a GCD of 2.31 seconds.

Scathe/B1(2.31) > F3(4.62) > F1x5(16.17) > B3(18.48) > T1/2(20.79/21.25)

So there's almost 3 seconds with T1 where you simply have no Thunder active, and a quarter of a second if using T2. This assuming you have bad luck, and not a single proc.

T2 has the potential for 55 more potency than T1 and has 5% more potential for a proc, through an extra dot tick. Now, to give T1 credit, it allows for better chance of B1 after the T1. However, it's not guaranteed. And, assuming 120 potency for Scathe ((80% x 100) + (20% x 200)), B1 is only 50 potency higher anyway, less than the bonus from T2.

I've been consistently asking this and the only answer given is that you've got roughly 8.5% more chance of a Proc. However no one has computed the change in dps caused by hitting 251 (regardless how you do it via Novus, stat points, food, whatever) and frankly I think that is something everyone pounding on the stats Puro put out is missing.

[StouterTaru]

I've been consistently asking this and the only answer given is that you've got roughly 8.5% more chance of a Proc. However no one has computed the change in dps caused by hitting 251 (regardless how you do it via Novus, stat points, food, whatever) and frankly I think that is something everyone pounding on the stats Puro put out is missing.

Thunder II also has a 20% longer cast time, so that's an extra 1/5 GCD for the damage extra 55 potency plus increased procs. Optimal rotations are around 280-290 potency/GCD.

On top of that, the thundercloud proc has a greater effect if you are only using Thunder I, because you will get an extra tick out of it than you would if you were using Thunder II (assuming Thunder III for the proc in both cases, no reason at all not to)That's why they come out to basically even overall, with Thunder winning by a slight margin. As someone mentioned before, you can B3 > B1 > T2 instead of B3 > T2 > B1 due to B1 having lower MP cost, and that doesn't require any Piety boost.

I did some testing with Piety for the 6 Fire rotation, and it's about even with 5 Fire rotation after the INT loss. All gear was ilvl110 except hat and one ring at ilvl100 for INT build, hat/hands/belt/shoes/ring at ilvl90 with 4 melds each for Piety build, stats:

INT 547 570
PIE 317 268
Acc 442 457
Crit 514 540
Det 331 286
SpS 439 412

SpS and Crit differences basically cancelled each other out, damage per spell vs damage per rotation basically cancelled each other out, the only difference worth noting was the 15 Acc on the INT/ilvl build.

edit - side note, 249 Piety wins out in AoE rotations where stuff lives long enough to matter, because convert will give you enough MP to use a FireII before your 2nd Flare

[Fethend]

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Also, for Keeper of the Moon and Dunesfolk, you don't even have to choose. They have enough piety by default.

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I'm fully aware of the extended cast time. In fact, I listed the exact cast time, if at the aforementioned 537 spell speed. I had to skew around lower level gear to get to the 537 to confirm, but I hit that exact value.

However, I also accounted for that, when determining it. And, assuming no proc of Thunder III, you will do, pure and simple, 55 more potency with T2 instead of T1. If you do get a proc, the additional theoretical tick is nigh negligible, as outside a situation of proc heaven, you will be refreshing Thunder before the dot from the proc fades anyway. Not to mention the additional tick is really only the fact that you would otherwise lose out on a tick, but basically saved yourself .46s at a 5% chance.

[StouterTaru]

assuming no proc of Thunder III, you will do, pure and simple, 55 more potency with T2 instead of T1. If you do get a proc, the additional theoretical tick is nigh negligible

55 potency, 1/5 GCD longer cast time. Ignoring the extra chance at thundercloud, that's 275 potency/GCD, where ideal rotations are around 285-295 potency/GCD. Add in the extra thundercloud chance and additional tick it will give you most of the time, and you're around 290 potency/GCD. The difference is almost nothing.

[HaroldSaxon]

55 potency, 1/5 GCD longer cast time. Ignoring the extra chance at thundercloud, that's 275 potency/GCD, where ideal rotations are around 285-295 potency/GCD. Add in the extra thundercloud chance and additional tick it will give you most of the time, and you're around 290 potency/GCD. The difference is almost nothing.

Have you taken into account the potential T1 has for getting a quick mana tick and thus getting into Fire phase quicker, which Puro takes into account with his calculator?

[StouterTaru]

Have you taken into account the potential T1 has for getting a quick mana tick and thus getting into Fire phase quicker, which Puro takes into account with his calculator?

I calculated with always using B1, and averaging out the wait time by never casting B1.

B3 > T2 > wait was at the top of list of potency/GCD (T3 was even higher, but requires another 13 Piety)

The difference between B3 > B1 > T and B3 > B1 > T2 and B3 > T > wait and B3 > T2 > wait is small, and its effect on T1 vs T2 damage is even smaller.

[Fethend]

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Technically, with T2 having a Cast time just under 3 seconds, whether you get a fast tick with T1 or T2, you will be able to get into Fire phase as soon as it ends, without needing to add an additional cast in either case. Once again, the difference comes out to .46 seconds.

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I understand in theory, B3 > B1 > T2 would be the same as B3 T2 B1 if you used it every time. But, in practice, that's simply not feasible. Many times, as Harold pointed out, you'll get a fast MP tick. And in either case, will be waiting on the Thunder cast, while at full MP. This being why I proposed B3 T2 B1/Scathe, instead of the other way around. I would simply rather miss the B1/Scathe, because a fast tick results in no wait. Now, let's look at some overall potency/second. Assuming 2 Firestarter procs, because of 40% chance.

B3 > T1 > B1 > F3 > F1x5 > F3x2

240 + 240 + 170 + 168 + 1530 + 864 = 3212 potency / 25.41 seconds = 126.407 p/s

B3 > T1 > Sc > F3 > F1x5 > F3x2 = 3162 / 25.41 = 124.439

B3 > T1 > F3 > F1x5 > F3x2 = 3042 / 23.1 = 131.688

B3 > T2 > B1 > F3 > F1x5 > F3x2

240 + 295 + 170 + 168 + 1530 + 864 = 3267 potency / 25.87 seconds = 126.285

B3 > T2 > Sc > F3 > F1x5 > F3x2 = 3217 / 25.87 = 124.353

B3 > T2 > F3 > F1x5 > F3x2 = 3097 / 23.56 = 131.452

I guess, when actually running the math even this way, it appears that .5 seconds does show up as making a difference. Kind of a bummer. A nigh negligible difference, but still a difference. Although, it also doesn't take into account the possibility of getting a TC in the 19-21s range as well. And at 5% chance for a 340 potency spike (ignoring the dot, because unless you get immediate proc, it will be up at refresh anyway), with initial hit and tick having a chance to proc, then T1 has a poteny 119 (340 x .05 x 7) potency increase per cast, and T2 136. Which in turn puts T2 ahead.

[HaroldSaxon]

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I've played enough with the T2 rotation to know that not all the time can you go straight into Fire phase. Its not as often as with T1 though. But you get more gains from a fast tick of mana with T1 than you do with T2.

Also, I was advocating T1+B1, if i was unclear at that, I apolgoise.

[SeraviEdalborez]

edit - side note, 249 Piety wins out in AoE rotations where stuff lives long enough to matter, because convert will give you enough MP to use a FireII before your 2nd Flare

Is it 249? As Plainsfolk Lala (243->250PIE) I have exactly enough with Convert to do F2>Flare (1116) with SCH.

[PuroStrider]

@StouterTaru - SSPD vs CRIT: You have to compare them side by side. Faster cast = more and more time/chance accumulated to finish a spell that CRIT build couldn't when the boss/game mechanic requires you to interrupt cast at X time into the battle. (ie. boss farts on you at 1 min from group dpsing him down to 90% hp. You've accumulated 1 sec from having sspd build over crit build and if the fart comes during that 1 sec, then you would have completed the spell where you couldn't with crit build. The game's gear BiS itemization doesn't really allow you to pick one over the other though, even after a year. /facepalm

@asmkitty - I'll probably record the game and time everything with video editing software once and for all in the next couple of days.... or more :P. Hell this should've been done instead of using shitty macro in the first place