What's with the Early Pull Brigade?

[Nalien]

True - they tried with B rank and daily changes.

Personally I think that did more harm than good. It effectively removed B Ranks from the picture, leaving players with only A and S Ranks, in short, it pushed more people into A and S Ranks and exacerbated the problem.

The solution is a viable alternative to Hunts which rewards Allied Seals and can take the majority of the heat off Hunts. If Hunts were just another source of Allied Seals, rather than the sole source, people would be much less caring about their fate. They'd still remain open world content, but they could be enjoyed the way they were meant to be, rather than being a massive zerg rush.

Leves would probably be a really good way of dealing with the issue. Add a small sum of Allied Seals to Grand Company Levequests and a larger sum to regular ones if you defeat the notorious monster which they can occasionally spawn with (more Allied Seals because that's a purely random factor). Overall there should just be more ways to go about getting Allied Seals. More Hunt mobs themselves (I think 1 S Rank, 2 A Ranks, and 3 B Ranks per zone would have been good) would help, as would an instanced Guildhest version of the mobs, where they can actually have mechanics and be designed well. Having everyone go after one source of Allied Seals is the major problem here.

[Clavaat]

Personally I think that did more harm than good. It effectively removed B Ranks from the picture, leaving players with only A and S Ranks, in short, it pushed more people into A and S Ranks and exacerbated the problem.

I think this did succeed in allowing players to feel like they could get something done without being a part of a horde, which is good.

In my opinion, the best solution would be to add more A and S ranks that spawn at the same time and/or create more ranks. This would force people to split up, and having more enemies to kill would make people not care so much if they miss one.

[IndigoHawk]

As far as I'm concerned, there are two views here: the capitalist, me-me-me, everybody out for themselves, anti-social direction that you are apparently in favor of, or the socialist (dirty word, apparently), colloborative, community-minded, everybody-gets-a-share direction.

Pulling early isn't the same as capitalism vs socialism. The community working together to profit is a combination of capitalism and socialism. Everyone works and everyone profits.

However, pulling early is not capitalism. There is no profit in it. Early pulls give the same rewards, just fewer people get them. The only reason to do it is to be antisocial. If you accidentally pull early, apologize.

If you think the hunts are a challenge or more fun in small groups, get over it. The marks have at most a couple dodge mechanics. They are simple zerg content. Share with others so everyone can profit. And then when people share with you, more profit.

[Nalien]

I think this did succeed in allowing players to feel like they could get something done without being a part of a horde, which is good.

Depends what you're after; Alexandrite and Sands of Time? OK, I guess. Vanity gear? Well, to go back to my example from another thread; 274 Allied Seals a week (from those horrible FATE farms) would take me over 38 weeks for what I want out of that vanity gear. I get a headache just thinking about it, but I'm getting my first piece of anything for Allied Seals tomorrow (how long ago was this content released again?) so I'm somewhat appeased.

Really, the FATEs for the Daily Mark Bills should have been replaced with B Ranks. Other than the snails pace they let me get vanity gear at, the major problem with them is FATEs just suck when you have to camp them... Really isn't helped when you look at B Ranks being mostly worthless and spawning every 5 seconds, when you're sitting for the second hour waiting on a FATE.

[Dhex]

I think this did succeed in allowing players to feel like they could get something done without being a part of a horde, which is good.

In my opinion, the best solution would be to add more A and S ranks that spawn at the same time and/or create more ranks. This would force people to split up, and having more enemies to kill would make people not care so much if they miss one.

I would agree. FFXI (don't panic) over time had a vast wealth of NMs with varying rewards and conditions that spanned lottery, placeholder, timed, conditional* (weather, etc.), and forced spawns. I think if they want people to split up and spread out they'll add more NMs to Hunt with more ranks and different reward tiers. As with everything since FFXIV relaunched - it's a matter of time and developers having a direction for that content for it to really mature into something better than what we're dealing with at the moment.

[Bladeglory]

Those tells were truly unacceptable and they should be reported. That should be said first.

But these threads are interesting as you really get a sense of Law and Order being two separate things.

On the one hand, we've got almighty SE, whose policies are only regulated by subscription. They can do whatever they want with the rules until they tick off enough people to risk a large amount of cash.

On the other, we've got the players, who are a large group of diverse people no matter how you look at it. They have no authority over each other aside from the threat of exclusion. That is, the only way to police other players is through their reputation. This is far less of an accurate punishment as it requires people to be informed and for the information to be accurate. (Apparently this is what the Balmung hunt LS does on the side? Oh dear...)

Back to the Law vs Order comment: Square Enix is the Law, and players are the subjects. That doesn't mean that SE is the only source of Order, however. What people have organized using a tremendous outpouring of effort in research, coding and structure is a system to optimize hunts so that active hunters receive the largest amount of seals.

So it surprises me when there are people that say "Sure, you can tick off the community because SE doesn't outright prevent or ban for it." You're putting Laws over Order and to me that seems like a really dumb decision. The community has created a baseline for "early pulls" and even if SE doesn't endorse it, if the majority does, and that's where Order springs from. Neither Law nor Order is going to be perfect, so why hold Law so much higher?

I have to add: My first run-in with the Hunt LSes on Balmung was being told that they only wait for 30 seconds after the announcement goes out to pull. I have no idea if that's true but it made me unhappy. But after using them (on Sunday of all days), I realized that it's plenty of time for people in pre-established parties to get there and get credit. I even once took a HORRIBLE route to the hunt, and still got there at 60+%. There were a couple accidents with facepulls... but I didn't see shout comments beyond asking why people can't wait.

(I should also note that this is specifically aimed at "There are no early pulls." I'm not defending anybody who uses "early pull" as an excuse to harass or demean someone.)

[Seoulstar]

Nowhere does it say that someone must wait until an allotted time to pull. Nor does it say anyone has to wait. The only person in the wrong (under the TOS) is the person who sends abusive tells or shouts in chat. Sure, it's polite to wait, but there's no obligation. I will wait and call a pull time, but if someone goes before then I won't argue it.

Well, i'm sorry that i'm one of the few who thinks about the community and not herself. Yes, according to the TOS, the person who doesn't have any patience isn't wrong. You can sit there and let people go around with such a behavior, but not everyone will do the exact same.

[Kydi]

Well, i'm sorry that i'm one of the few who thinks about the community and not herself. Yes, according to the TOS, the person who doesn't have any patience isn't wrong. You can sit there and let people go around with such a behavior, but not everyone will do the exact same.

It's admirable that people do call and wait, but like I say, there is no obligation to do so. Much the same as there is no obligation to take new players through Ex or whatever. However, the subset which damages the community is the part which sends abusive tells and threatens, not the person who pulls a monster in open world, when, let's be honest, a few seals is all that's at stake.

[SDaemon]

Well, i'm sorry that i'm one of the few who thinks about the community and not herself. Yes, according to the TOS, the person who doesn't have any patience isn't wrong. You can sit there and let people go around with such a behavior, but not everyone will do the exact same.

As if the behavior of those who pull when they stumble upon A's and S's is at fault and not the toxic mindset of those who sling abuse at the prior.

[Brine_Gildchaff]

I'm gonna say what I've said in the past, what someone does with a mark when THEY find it should be solely up to THEM. Now the community is free to react how they want to this, that's the miracle of free {speech, expression, etc.}. The exception to this being when they cross the line into actual abuse, as it did in the case of the OP; those people should absolutely be reported and have action taken against them. Honestly I still think something like the idea I've proposed in a few places should be implemented; the player that finds a mob can "tag" it, locking things so that only a they or a member of their party can draw the initial aggro (but once aggro is drawn, it's fair game for anyone to attack).