Here's an idea; how about Ronso as a playable Race?

[Terin]

Not necessarily. The only issue the main races have against "Beastmen" seems to be a simple case of being so closed-minded that they refuse to work together with the other races. As long as the Ronso -- or rather, FFXIV's interpretation of a Ronso-like race -- agreed to having some kind of peaceful ties, I don't think it matters how "primitive" their culture might seem.

In fact, it's their culture that really sells me on the race! I love the "Honorable Savage" type of character, and perhaps they would look to the other races for gathering resources, and offer their services as peerless hunters and warriors in exchange. It would give them a sense of racial diversity from the other races, much as Roegadyn are generally kind of "the Pirate/seafaring race".

I mean, like I said; it doesn't need to be Ronso specifically, but just something kind of *similar*, at least in body-style. Make it draconic or reptilian, if you want! :P

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Aren't the Amalj'aa and Ronso a bit similar in what they value and whatnot?

[Terin]

Aren't the Amalj'aa and Ronso a bit similar in what they value and whatnot?

True, they could totally go that route, as well. I'd maybe like to have their bodies toned-down just a tiny little bit, so they aren't quite so top-heavy, but they could explain it away as "This is a different Amal'jaa tribe, so their proportions are a little more balanced". I definitely dig the Amal'jaa's culture, too; very much the kind of Race I'd like!

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I like the Amalj'aa as is. Do have to lol at their weakness of water.

[Kaethra]

There's definitely two issues at play here:

1. Too bestial in appearance means only a few would play it. As others have said, the vast majority prefer something more.. humanlike and 'pretty'. So whatever it is, it'd have to be something with 4-5 digits per extremity and a regular foot and arm structure. Basically any flavor will be in eye shape, ear shape, and 'appendages' such as tail or horns if anything. It isn't to say they shouldn't consider it. But they do have to weight the benefits with the effort. If only 5% or less of the playerbase will play it, is it worth making new models for every piece of gear for the two genders? Even if they skip a gender and make it androgynous then you still have alot of work ahead of you.

2. Lorewise I'd imagine it would be related to humans. Hyur, Roe, Mi'quote, Elezen, and Lala's as well as Garleans are all 'human' in lore or at the very least are referred to as mankind. This is also why I don't see half breeds coming about. Just like in RL your race is determined normally by the dominate gene causing it in the case of multiple ethnicities. Very rarely do they go half and half. So if you have a Hyur and Roe parent you are either Hyur or Roe, rather than half of each. This is of course easier to fudge by retconning or making up new lore. So its not as hard as the first issue to deal with.

[Kyoskai]

BEAST-KIN OR RIOT!

[Terin]

@Kaethra:

Variety is king, though. Take World of Warcraft, for example; sure, Humans and Blood Elves are the most popular races, but even together, they make up less than half of the total population. Worgen have proven to be exceptionally popular, for example.

"Pretty", Human-looking races will always be the most popular races, but if you're someone who wants to play that, then you're already got three different races that cater specifically to you, and Yugiri's race will probably make four. Frankly, the game *NEEDS* a bestial, inhuman Race if they want it to expand, so that no matter what your particular tastes are, there is (most likely) going to be a race that appeals to you. If all you have are pretty, human-looking races, then you're not going to attract anyone that isn't already playing the game.

It might not be the most popular race in the game, but having variety is important.

[Shioban]

Seeing as you have two threads up (for whatever reason).

I'll post this here too on why it's going to be a particularly annoying thing to implement.

That's /slightly/ part of the issue. Creating separate 3D mesh variations for to suit would only be a portion of the issues they'd face.

On top of providing separate gear components to compensate for the leg structure, is the games skeleton.


Currently, every race in the game uses the same skeleton, featuring the same number of joints/bones for each animation, this makes it very easy and streamlined to "add in" new animations for pretty much anything.

Certain occasions such as the Lalafell Arcanist animations or Roegadyn Warrior/Dragoon animations are different as a result of their body shape, (but this is simply a specific animation they've decided to use for them, not a separate skeleton).



As someone who's had to rig/weigh and animate these damned things in the past, digi-grade legs sometimes require more joints, this is where problems occur.




As you can clearly see, the human joins simply rely on three main connection points; Hips, Knees, Ankles. (This is all that's needed for basic human leg animation).

As the profile view of the logs leg shows, it relies on four main connection points; Hips, Knees, and Two Ankle joints.


This creates a problem already. The original plantigrade skeleton will have let's say 42 bones in it, the digigrade one now has 44 bones.
The computer is now confused and can no-longer apply the weights or their influences to the correct joints on the skeleton as two new joints have been added.

(There are some ways around this, but as I said before, FFXIV has a huge focus on animation quality, therefore they'd be likely to fuss over such details)



In terms of animating characters, there are ways into tricking a normal planti-grade skeleton into the form of a digi-grade one with a little bit of trickery.

However in terms of the quality of animating FFXIV, and the attention to detail they like to go to, they'd essentially have to provide unique animations for this new race, simply based on the leg structure (hence why the new race screenshots have plantigrade legs instead of digigrade.




"Why does this matter?"

It matters because, they're going to sit down in their various teams involved in the creation of this new race, someone is going to say "How about Ronso".

Both the animators and the modelers are immediately going to go "But here's a list of issues that are going to be caused as a result of using that race"
"Do we have the time to compensate for that?" "Will we be able to find a solution?" "If not, whats the best course of action".

In the end, I couldn't really fault them for sticking with a race that'll suit and fit a human shape/skeleton, to reduce the effort and work-load of the various sub-set teams.

[Kaethra]

@Kaethra:

Variety is king, though. Take World of Warcraft, for example; sure, Humans and Blood Elves are the most popular races, but even together, they make up less than half of the total population. Worgen have proven to be exceptionally popular, for example.

Believe me, I'm in total agreement. WoW is actually not as good of an example, Everquest has Lizards, Cats, Gnomes, Dwarves, Faeries, Vampires, Dragon People (humanish, human-hybrid, and total dragonish), Ogres, Trolls, ect as all playable races across two of their titles. And from my experience, its a good mix of people playing all of them. Granted the largest demographic is humans (barbarians, erudites, humans), and their variety of elves.. but they don't hold a clear majority when added up.

My concern here is FFXIV didn't start with the bizarre races like EQ and WoW did. So the prospect is people rerolling or fantasiaing to the new race. Its gotta be 'cool', 'pretty', and popular to be worth the effort. I mean if they wish to go through with it. Then more power to it. Its really going to be up to the designers to decide if they wish to put in the effort.

My personal opinion? I hope they do with the idea of variety. My analysis suggests maybe not so much.

[Sakasa]

I would just like to add way back when when the vote wasn't defined and it was forum posts in the dev made threat Ronso idea was represented I know I voted for them by name so I think when the initial numberical vote came down they rolled the idea into mammal demi human but Viera was by far the more popular if you put in the same class which isn't suprising if they had to choose a flag ship race it is an easy decision.