4 man dungeons: Are they fun?

[Gramul]

From what I heard, early beta had the guildhest NMs randomly spawn in certain dungeons. Blockman was a TamTara rare spawn.

Why was that removed?

Creates an uneven experience, which is something SE's avidly trying to avoid.

[Anapingofness]

I have quite a bit of fun in 4man dungeons. It's a lot easier for me to find three other people than it is to look for seven other people every time I want to run a dungeon.

The rewards of the dungeons match the difficulty. Personally, I would like them to be a bit more difficult but I won't complain so as long as I can see that an effort for quality has been made. ^^

As far as the 2.3 dungeons go... I liked all three of the new dungeons, although I think SV HM needed just a couple of tweaks. Mainly, I expected to see a lot more NPC's in there since they were 'reclaiming' SV. They didn't necessarily have to help fight but they could have run in behind the party and stood guard or something.
Also as a tank I found the final boss somewhat frustrating. Once I accepted that you can't really tank the final boss it became far less frustrating. =-=;;

[Edli]

Creates an uneven experience, which is something SE's avidly trying to avoid.

Which isn't wise IMO. A content which you run over and over again needs to have uneven experience everytime you run it eitherwise it becomes monotonous. Which leads to boredom.

This isn't unique to FFXIV though. Almost every mmo falls in this trap. Dungeon trash on every mmo is considered as boring time waster.

Take L4D. The same map and the same enemies but you know that no matter how many times you'll run that map it is always going to be different and interesting. That's because of the unpredictability of enemy positions. You don't know when a horde will come, if there is going to be a zombie behind that door, when a smoker may grab you. Same map, same enemies but every run is still exciting. That's what I want to see on a dungeon. To be caught off guard and adapt to the situation.

[Rona]

I enjoy them when a party actually chit chat's with each other. Most times it's only a "hello" or "hey" and then no one talks until the end. Having friendly banter takes away from the monotony of having to grind low level dungeons again.

[Gramul]

Which isn't wise IMO. A content which you run over and over again needs to have uneven experience everytime you run it eitherwise it becomes monotonous. Which leads to boredom.

This isn't unique to FFXIV though. Almost every mmo falls in this trap. Dungeon trash on every mmo is considered as boring time waster.

Take L4D. The same map and the same enemies but you know that no matter how many times you'll run that map it is always going to be different and interesting. That's because of the unpredictability of enemy positions. You don't know when a horde will come, if there is going to be a zombie behind that door, when a smoker may grab you. Same map, same enemies but every run is still exciting. That's what I want to see on a dungeon. To be caught off guard and adapt to the situation.

And I fully agree. This game is kinda weak in spontaneity and variety and I would totally dig something to break up repetition in dungeons.
But they probably did it to avoid people complaining about "unfairness" in their most prominent feature.

[HumsterMKX]

Pre-Nerf Pharnos Sirus

O man those memories....

[Kazumac]

I've had fun but they are not fun based on difficulty or mechanics, same is said of CT/ST. They are kind like the point and click smash everything get loot gameplay (think Diablo, MMO style). Which is fun in its own way for what it is. Blow things up look at the pretty scenery, get your rewards, rinse and repeat. It is a type of gameplay (enjoyed by some not by everyone) and it isn't meant to be interesting based on difficulty.

If you enjoy complex fights and mechanics that's where the coil and primal lines come into play. And those fights are very accessible to those who would like to do them.

I do feel like there's a missing spot for complex difficult 4 man content but I think the devs are just not focusing resources there since that option exists in the form of 8 man content. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see it but due to the overlap it probably isn't high on their priority list.

[NintenPyjak64]

From what I heard, early beta had the guildhest NMs randomly spawn in certain dungeons. Blockman was a TamTara rare spawn.

Why was that removed?

They weren't random. Stuff like this was cut out to make the dungeon easier and faster

[Souljacker]

5 mans have always been my favorite activity in games. I like the dungeons here as well, but I don't run them nearly as often as I did in WoW\Rift. Part of it is queue time - adding one more DPS to parties would help (why the decision on 4 man? Just so it's not like that "other" game?). Part of it is the community is mostly terrible and if you get that one jerk that you just have to kick because he's that abusive and he's a tank, you could be waiting a while. Part of it is the dungeons are either completely faceroll, or disproportionately difficult for less coordinated parties. It's always one of two extremes with SE, there is rarely a middle ground. The three new ones are on the faceroll end of the spectrum.


So instead I'm banging my head against grind content like level 2 FATES that are oh so challenging and will make me feel like I totally accomplished something great in the game when that elusive atma drops, content I absolutely hate and have little to no interest in because somehow, I feel it's less of a waste of my time than doing dungeons for soldiery.

If that doesn't say something about the general state of dungeons...

I, too, would like more engaging and interesting content. Someone mentioned coil and primals, but that isn't four man content. This discussion is about to four man content.

[Edli]

If you enjoy complex fights and mechanics that's where the coil and primal lines come into play.

I get your point but these dungeons don't have to be either uber challenging or braindead simple. There has to be a middle ground, especially for dungeons which are labelled expert. We have plenty of dungeons that are easy now, they're piling up. Lets have three for every patch that are a bit more interesting.

Plus primals and coil are mainly focused on boss fight. A dungeon is about going from start to finish. The only way to make them fun even by repplaying them over and over again is the element of surprise. Random placement for trash. You mentioned Diablo I mentioned L4D. Both games implement randomness to keep it interesting. Trash mobs that may overwhelm you, patrol or that you can sneak by. They can have much stronger CC. A pacify to tank that lasts 15 sec is going to make that trash fight a bit more interesting, silence on healer, sleep whatever.