4 man dungeons: Are they fun?

[XLauncher]

They're enjoyable at the intended ilevel, but they're tuned to be at the lowest end of the content cycle. This latest batch of dungeons would have been fair sport...at launch, for a group geared in Darklight. Now, they're little more than fodder in the way of our solidery cap for the week. I wish SE would take 4-man content more seriously and tune them under the consideration of what kind of gear the average player can attain. Maybe don't tune them for a group in full unweathered masterworks, but Christ, i90 gear rains from the sky now. Would it be so terrible if they tuned them under the assumption that the group is full i90?

[Xystic]

Nothing he said has anything to do with how a well a player plays.

Just so you know...

Generally too easy to train-wreck

I'm pretty sure that means dungeons are too easy by his standards and if it doesn't mean that, I'm not sure what else he means.

[Hyrist]

I enjoy them. They're casual fun. Not meant to be too hard. I think of them as warm ups or practice runs, and try not to take them too seriously. There's a lot that I can be after for those, not just tomes, but vanity pieces and furnishing materials as well, and the designs of them keep improving with each iteration.

I don't need to be slamming my head against the monitor in frustration (against the mechanics, myself, or other party members) in order to have a good time. There's challenge enough in Coils and Primals for me to grind against trying to get people past them.

In the end, the Dungeons are thing to do, one of many, that if I rotate them properly, keep me entertained. Drop rates could be better. Less mats, more gear.

[Valthein]

Its difficult to make dungeons fun after repeat runs, sure you could have a dungeon with rng mechanics but once you do that and see all the mechanics and possibilities it then becomes like any other dungeons another quick run. The only way you wouldn't even get bored with dungeons is if they were to devote a HUGE amount of time and resources. To just keep coming out with one dungeon after another, and that would stop the games progression. Everything from new classes/jobs to races crafting golden saucer new lands it would all come to a stand still. No game could ever keep up with that, look at wow...yes i said it. its no longer world of warcraft but world of raids, they put so much time and effort in to all the raids and keeping up on them every few months that the rest of the game is now neglected.

[Trancery]

I think they are too easy and the mechanics are mindless. New people don't even need to be told about the new mechanics because they are laugh-worthy..

They need to make all the available dungeons same difficulty with same amount of Tombs reward for each. 45 for Sold on just 3 is dumb and bad game design if you want your content to be repeatable. Imagine if all the dungeons were a little more challenging and had 45 Sold for every one? We'd be in love!

[Kaethra]

Its like I was telling my friends on TS the other day. Developers really need to think about the content they are adding. Basically they should ask themselves the following question:

"Would you do this dungeon or quest, even if no rewards were given at the end?"

If the answer is yes, add it to the game.
If the answer is no, rethink the object at hand.

Think about that for a moment. When we used to play Super Mario Bros back in the '80s. And we played through a level. We had fun with the level. Our reward for completing the level was we were able to see how far we could get in the next level.

What happened to that? Even the original Final Fantasy was like that. Our rewards were continuing the adventure. The 'gear' and 'loot' were just tools to help us with that. But we always wanted to see what was in the next cave or on the other side of the bridge before us.

Things need to be fun. Ask yourselves that. Is grinding for Atma fun? Or is having a iLevel 100 at the end the 'fun part'? Is clamoring over people for hunt marks 'fun'? Or is the act of using those seals for gear and items the fun part? Are the dungeons fun, or just a means to a goal?

If these things aren't fun, we should be raising hell and brimstone on these forums.

Something I was thinking about was my buddy got his Atma weapon in 13 hours. It was a bit of a dare. Some of do random stuff on dares, but this one wasn't one of the crazy ones. Anyway.. he spent 13 hours and got it. Same day he got his Zenith weapon. Not to bad right? He doesn't want to do that again. And why would he? Grinding fates wasn't really fun. He tolerated it because he was on TS with us the entire day chatting as well as chatting in the FC chat.

13 hours to get an Atma with unfun content. Not to say Fates aren't fun. Sometimes they can be. As long as you don't need to do 300 of them in a row or however the number is some need. That alot like work. Well what does 13 hours give you if you worked instead? In my state a little under $100. Is an Atma worth that much? If SE said, you can skip the Atma for a payment of $100. Would you do it? Some might. But that is a problem. Why would I even think of spending real money on something like that, or even compare the act to a RL job if the method was fun?

The idea that it took 13 hours to complete isn't the problem. The problem is you're not having fun during that time. This is why you see players claiming it takes weeks to get their atma. They do 5-10 fates in a row and go '#$% it' and then go do something else. If they had people to chat with on VOIP and FC chat for 12+ hours they too could get it in a day. But.. they won't because its not fun.

Dungeons are sketchy simply because they can have a different experience each time you run them. This is due to different party make ups and the like. But the act of running dungeons should be fun. If they feel grindy then something needs to be changed. Now.. to play devil's advocate, there is a limitation. Eventually dungeons will be mastered. I can go through the hardest level in Super Mario Bros almost blindfolded... (and some have, youtube it). So its only a matter of time before its getting grindy. But until then.. it should be fun. And sometimes its fun to go back to places you've mastered long ago and see how much you remembered (forgotten most likely).

Dungeons in my opinion are almost there. There could be a few tweaks done. Specifically on the trash that makes them a bit less 'just there' and actually have a point like the bosses do. Maybe have less groups of mobs but give them more complex and interesting (not annoying) mechanics, like mini bosses that go down in 2-3 minutes.

Now I did use Atma as a long example. I did this because its fresh in everyone's minds. And its been discussed quite a bit in the forums. Its also a glaring example of what isn't fun in this game. And I warn people who have theirs and wish to say "stop being lazy and suck through it" to take a step back and realize, you've got it on one class. Do you wish to do it again? Also that I'm not advocating laziness. Just for fun. If it takes 30 hours to do, great. If I have fun for those 30 hours, even better. And you'll benefit too when you have something fun to do on your other classes.

Its really a win win situation for everyone. And if SE pulls it off, they'll win too.

[SendohJin]

Imagine if all the dungeons were a little more challenging and had 45 Sold for every one? We'd be in love!

People hated the difficulty of Pharos. Granted the rewards were crap compared to how hard it was.

Most of the people saying they are easy would probably not have such a good time if they weren't seriously overgeared. if there was an iLv Cap a lot of these dungeons can be pretty serious.

[zar]

People hated the difficulty of Pharos. Granted the rewards were crap compared to how hard it was.

Most of the people saying they are easy would probably not have such a good time if they weren't seriously overgeared. if there was an iLv Cap a lot of these dungeons can be pretty serious.

Diabolos in an ilevel 55 group would be a nightmare.

[KingOfAbyss]

Honestly, I love the newest 4 mans that came with 2.3. If SE decides to keep putting that kind of effort towards 4 man dungeons (and please make them slightly more difficult) I don't see there really being a problem.

Agreed with you, except Stone Vigil HM, I find it very boring. Except the last boss with no aggro table, I like that ^^

-OP-

For me, when I'm not with my GF or FC mates, in 4, that's 90% of time where no one talks, except if we wipe, then some might start not talking, but blaming and complaining.

8-man: same (Praet and CM) except now you have not 3, but 7. (SR? yes - no - CS - no skip - skip, end of chat.)

Alliance (23) when we wipe, be ready for the Poison rain arrow directed at the players (you DPS just suck blablabla)

So yeah, my fun doesn't come from others, except FC mates.

PF is so-so, DF is lol.

From an MMO standpoint, except RPers, this is as dead as a cemetary, social-wise.

[Fendred]

They're not that interesting. I recall trying to do them more slowly with a group in order to look at every nook and cranny, but in the end we all agreed they were very boring places. They are gauntlets made with a similar mindset to daily quests. They are just a means to an end.