Blue Mage and Summoner responses worry me

[Tupsi]

The devs likely do not want a high cost of entry to play a job --> a "you must be THIS AWESOME to play this job in a group, ever" sign. Think about how that sounds.

This happens now - People really don't realize it because this game is more on the easy side but outside of your FC, how often do you see:

"Must be experienced"
"Must know all phases"
"Must have clear"
"AT least watch a video"

and so on in Party Finder? That's essentially the same concept. You must know how to play to get a group. By skill he means something more than spamming a 1-2 rotation.

[Dotsusama]

This happens now - People really don't realize it because this game is more on the easy side but outside of your FC, how often do you see:

"Must be experienced"
"Must know all phases"
"Must have clear"
"AT least watch a video"

and so on in Party Finder? That's essentially the same concept. You must know how to play to get a group. By skill he means something more than spamming a 1-2 rotation.

But the kind of skill you're talking about is universal. It's not saying "must be able to move to join this group", but what I see by making a job require more skill is more to the tune of "must be able to push 300 DPS to join as SMN". See also: why the devs frown upon addons that measure stats like DPS. It's another hurdle.

[Tupsi]

But the kind of skill you're talking about is universal. It's not saying "must be able to move to join this group", but what I see by making a job require more skill is more to the tune of "must be able to push 300 DPS to join as SMN". See also: why the devs frown upon addons that measure stats like DPS. It's another hurdle.

I get what you were saying which is why I said outside of FC because inside of FC's you'll already see: "must be able to hit 450-500+ dps to do x if you join as brd/drg/mnk" for example or else you hinder the raid. That's why I said it already happens. All it does is become a job that not EVERYONE can play much like there's people already that simply aren't suited to play Tank or Healers no matter how easy/hard.

[Shougun]

I was actually given a little hope that Yoshida knows that Blue Mage has peculiars that you cannot avoid without ruining its style. As for SMN.. I personally would like to see more primal elements, I imagine they could do that without large reworks but It would be nice to see Yoshida feel comfortable to make some classes take a little bit more skill to pick up (to meet different play styles, Beastmaster will probably be another chance to give it a whirl).

One thing is for sure, with the Job systems they are working with I bet they have one hilarious spiderweb of cross connections trying to manage them all together. What a nightmare that must be to look at lol.

[Volcano]

There is a difference between having a job that REQUIRES skill and having jobs (as they are now) where skill simply makes things easier and makes you stand out as a good player.

The devs likely do not want a high cost of entry to play a job --> a "you must be THIS AWESOME to play this job in a group, ever" sign. Think about how that sounds.

The sort of skill i was thinking of is being able to micromanage properly. i am assuming that is how a "true" summoner would work, with being able to control pet properly. as of now unless your pet dies most summoners ignore it entirely. and just let it attack, this is not actually a good smn as the good ones tend to have theirs on obey but even with that, still very little interaction with pet outside of pressing this button. The question is, how could they make that work.

In XI SMN was shunned because it was more or less a watered down WHM leveling wise, but it still was more about pet then the actual controller.

[Dotsusama]

I get what you were saying which is why I said outside of FC because inside of FC's you'll already see: "must be able to hit 450-500+ dps to do x if you join as brd/drg/mnk" for example or else you hinder the raid. That's why I said it already happens. All it does is become a job that not EVERYONE can play much like there's people already that simply aren't suited to play Tank or Healers no matter how easy/hard.

That is an issue within FC's then and, honestly, if people cannot abide by that attitude then they should leave and form up with people who do not have that view on the way the game should be played. That's a bit off-topic, I realize.

[Kisshu]

In XI SMN was shunned because it was more or less a watered down WHM leveling wise, but it still was more about pet then the actual controller.

FFXI SMN was odd.
In lv parties it was a weak /WHM healer because avatars consumed too much MP to auto-attack and before the summoning skill adjustment they didn't have the needed accuracy to land their 1 min abilities reliable on party mobs.
But a party with 1 tank, 1 heal and 4 smn at lv 75 could destroy a lot of bosses with garuda and her predator claw ability

[Luvbunny]

If you want more complexity - you should try FFXI, though the more complex it is, the harder to balance the game. And you can't please everyone. FF14 keeps things simpler with the more rigid roles, due to the Duty Finder. It's a double edge sword, on one hand it makes it easier to get things done (to a degree - this is an illusion since it does not make it easier to clear some content using DF). But on the other hand, we could and should be able to be creative in solving the game mechanic and not rely on the Holy Trinity set up. Though I can see how this will create a havoc in Duty Finder auto matching since you don't know what you are getting, hence roles need to be more rigid and simplified. As long as the "roles" are not strictly enforced when you have a full party and want to sign up for dungeons or trials, then it should be good alternative.

[Radacci]

They could have BLU as a class, and branch off into 3 different jobs with different roles. that way you can pick whatever role you want at any time, without dumping everything into 1 job.
ACN can fill any role basically...can heal, can use tank pet, and be DD. So there's no reason they couldn't do that with BLU, also.
Sure ACN is a bit OP at lower levels, but at end-game, not so much.

[Dwill]

I get what you were saying which is why I said outside of FC because inside of FC's you'll already see: "must be able to hit 450-500+ dps to do x if you join as brd/drg/mnk" for example or else you hinder the raid. That's why I said it already happens. All it does is become a job that not EVERYONE can play much like there's people already that simply aren't suited to play Tank or Healers no matter how easy/hard.

And you think people are going to be satisfied with Summoner having a high skill cap requirement ? Heck, most summoners can't even play Summoners correctly right now and with these people now being even worse in term of damage output, they'll ask for the class to be dumbed-down and we'll never hear the end of it, pretty much like it is right now.