Can we just have the Wrath of the Lich King Raiding Scheme?

[Fendred]

I played WoW, and I feel that regular modes of Coil in this game feel like normal WoW, (maybe a tad harder) whereas Savage feels like Heroic. Right now the main differences are the lockout is shared and there's no incremental loot bonus. I don't care about higher ilvl gear dropping from Savage personally as all that does is create more item bloat, but I'd feel more compelled to do Savage mode if the lockouts weren't shared, because my group still has not seen BiS drops from normal mode after 20 weeks of raiding.

I'm going to be absolutely serious here, and I'm not trying insult anyone with the following statement.

FFXIV targets the lowest possible skill brackets available in the gaming spectrum. It's an area that WoW only ever touched during Mists of Panderia, and I immediately quit that game after seeing raid finder (I was used to seeing raid content be a challenge and it just ruined it for me, personally). The problem is the wider the skill brackets between players, the greater the drama becomes. It becomes more socially uncomfortable to try forming statics because more of the people can't make the cut, and that leads to less people trying to make static groups. Thus, skilled players find themselves increasingly locked out of the content made for them because they'd have to be increasingly ruthless in sorting out who can actually run stuff, and no one plays an MMORPG to be a dick.

[Havenchild]

WoW and it's predecessors (FFXIV included) ARE the literal embodiment of mainstreaming MMOs. FFXIV raids couldn't get any easier without literally giving you loot for zoning in. You can beat the hardest raid in the game without even being close to ilvl cap.

But they(SE) don't really portray this fact when they give off the illusions that you need a static. If there was no direct coil lockout but perhaps just a loot lockout, you would probably see a big increase in the raiding community. Many experienced people will be assisting the other newcomers. With the current way, it's either have a static or struggle to down the content. What if you don't have that time to dedicate for a static?

I don't think it's not so much people don't want to do the content even on it's current difficulty but that the field of raiding is not favorable to the audience this game largely targets. You simply need to remove the burden of forced static progression. If you made two separate levels of the same instance, one being harder with slightly better rewards with a progression lockout (like current coil), and one with a loot lockout but open to the masses (no progression lockout), you introduce the raiding content to the mainstream, while also maintaining the hardcore progression in statics.

You even give the possibility for the masses to climb up to the difficult level and influence them to want to start on the harder level next time.

[Warlyx]

what? ppl only puged raids on wow during woltk when content was nerfed to hell ....no1 pugged Naxx in 3.0 nor pugged ulduar when was current ...

the gear went from 200 to 251 for 10M or 264 for 25M, ppl pugged 25M and asked for 5k GS as min for ICC lol , on top of that u had the buff 30%

u really want that?

2.4

LFM second coil 105i ,link t9 achivement , no ninja , t9 whm weapon reserved!

[Orophin]

I'm going to be absolutely serious here, and I'm not trying insult anyone with the following statement.

FFXIV targets the lowest possible skill brackets available in the gaming spectrum. It's an area that WoW only ever touched during Mists of Panderia, and I immediately quit that game after seeing raid finder (I was used to seeing raid content be a challenge and it just ruined it for me, personally). The problem is the wider the skill brackets between players, the greater the drama becomes. It becomes more socially uncomfortable to try forming statics because more of the people can't make the cut, and that leads to less people trying to make static groups. Thus, skilled players find themselves increasingly locked out of the content made for them because they'd have to be increasingly ruthless in sorting out who can actually run stuff, and no one plays an MMORPG to be a dick.

Not sure what you quoting from me and your statement have in common?

FFXIV was designed to cater mostly to casual players and Yoshi-P has said as much numerous times. Coil is like the one thing that is NOT targeted towards the "lowest possible skill bracket". This is the one piece of content that the minority of skilled players has to challenge themselves, and even then it's made incrementally easier when it's no longer cutting edge so that people that couldn't previously do it can try their hand at it.

[skaterger]

I can't speak for WoW's difficulty as I quit soon as the 1st expansion hit and it was clear they were going the direction of "handouts to everyone! (yay lvl 61 greens replacing Naxx raid gear!). But the statements about FFXIV are spot on. Only skill involved in FFXIV raids as they stand are "can you follow simple directions like a 3 year old"

Sad thing? The current generation of MMO players can't manage that. Because divebombs are hard yo!

Dude, not sure what game you were playing but the raids in vanilla were not hard at all. Most of the difficulty was trying to find 40 people that were online at the same time that wanted to raid. Most of the bossses in MC and naxx were tank and spank with very simple mechanics and the trash took hours and hours to respawn and clear. The only real hard fight was c'thun pre nerf. The real difficulty was in BC imo. It was also considered as the hardcore patch of Wow if you did a google search. If you didn't like vertical progression I respect that but I think wow did a pretty good job balancing both forms of progression with interesting ways to customize your gear with professions and talent trees, at least in the earlier part of its lifespan.

what? ppl only puged raids on wow during woltk when content was nerfed to hell ....no1 pugged Naxx in 3.0 nor pugged ulduar when was current ...

the gear went from 200 to 251 for 10M or 264 for 25M, ppl pugged 25M and asked for 5k GS as min for ICC lol , on top of that u had the buff 30%

u really want that?

If it generates more interest in the end game scene and makes more people interested in raiding, why not? Right now raids are reserved for a small handful and the line between casual and hardcore is getting further and further each patch. Many have not cleared T5 and patch 2.3 is coming out. And keep in mind the OP is not asking for LFR faceroll mode, just a slight decrease to current raid difficulty, while making our current raid even harder and drop better quality gear!

LFM second coil 105i ,link t9 achivement , no ninja , t9 whm weapon reserved!

Tbh, this is what we are seeing already currently, and the requirements are so absurd that no one even bothers to sign up for fear of getting blacklisted and kicked. By having a lower tier of raids, people at least have a chance to go in and experience the content and decide if it is for them.

[Clicked]

what? ppl only puged raids on wow during woltk when content was nerfed to hell ....no1 pugged Naxx in 3.0 nor pugged ulduar when was current ...

No on pugged Naxx in 3.0? Yeah that's because everyone beat it within the first 6 hours of being level 80. It was the biggest joke end game raid ever released. WotLK end game started with Ulduar.

Although I don't see much of a difference between what you are saying and what's currently happening.

[Colt47]

I'm all for tiered difficulty that works. Echo really doesn't work that well on some of the fights.

[revonine]

I'm all for tiered difficulty that works. Echo really doesn't work that well on some of the fights.

It's funny you should mention that actually because I did a Titan EX fight today that became more difficult the higher the echo buff. In such tightly scripted fights things quickly went haywire when damage became way higher than the fight was designed for forcing his phase changes before we had time to deal with all the mechanics.

[Duelle]

No on pugged Naxx in 3.0? Yeah that's because everyone beat it within the first 6 hours of being level 80. It was the biggest joke end game raid ever released. WotLK end game started with Ulduar.

You really need to put a massive asterisk next to that statement that has the phrase "provided you had sunwell gear" attached to it. You weren't clearing naxx 3.0 in lv80 greens.

The people who still had their sunwell gear were the ones who cleared Naxx soon after hitting 80. Everyone else either had to gear through heroics (hi2U RNG gods) or use crafted gear as a way to meet raiding reqs (hit cap, expertise cap, defense cap for tanks, etc).

[Crimson-Falcon]

you want me to be honest?

i want coil remain as it is now

its made for ppl above average ( semi hardcore )

ppl need to put effort in learning not everything in life is easily handed