In regard to the Scholars

[Gor]

Well until we actually are able to play over a course of time, you will not really know how the change would affect gameplay as much. As mentioned by another poster, this removal of Stacks is more of a buff for monk than nerf for scholars.

I don't think much will change in PvP though other than monks chasing after scholars more often and with the potency buffs given to dps classes, hopefully it solves some kind of damage issue people might have. If you're quitting the game after just hearing about something and not extensively trying it out, I don't know, it's more telling of yourself.

Relying on another player's ignorance of not using an ability to remove one of your own is not a good game design. I can see getting away with it in Frontlines because its full of noobs anyway, but in Wolves' Den where there are more serious pvp players that know what they're doing, the removal of the Aetherflow stacks is going to be a hinderance, especially with a PLD/MNK combo. So I expect to be seeing more PLD/MNK comps in Wolves Den where in that case SCHs will be much more easier to kill in an arena where the healer is the deciding factor of who wins the match or not.

[Divinemight]

Just curious because I havent done any Wolf Den after 2.3. Is WHM even doing well in Wolf Den? All i remember is seeing Scholars as healer in Wolf Den in 2.2.

[Gor]

WHM does well in 40 and 50s, but not so well in 30s because they don't have Regen.

[Zyphione]

Relying on..

I always imagined the changes with this patch would have been worse, such as touching important skills like Adlo, Succor or modifying Eos' healing values.

It's undoubtedly going to be many monks and paladins after these changes, but I don't believe the SCH class is going to be having any more of a harder time than it had with the really painful changes before.

I have not tried Wolves Den yet though, so I can't comment on how much it has impacted the class from a personal opinion but I don't expect my playstyle to change very much other than needing help more often. It wasn't the best way to handle the situation as a whole in my opinion, but FL has been the focus and that's where a good majority of the PvP community is right now.

[jlewiss]

I always imagined the changes with this patch would have been worse, such as touching important skills like Adlo, Succor or modifying Eos' healing values.

It's undoubtedly going to be many monks and paladins after these changes, but I don't believe the SCH class is going to be having any more of a harder time than it had with the really painful changes before.

I have not tried Wolves Den yet though, so I can't comment on how much it has impacted the class from a personal opinion but I don't expect my playstyle to change very much other than needing help more often. It wasn't the best way to handle the situation as a whole in my opinion, but FL has been the focus and that's where a good majority of the PvP community is right now.

my biggest concern is this sets a dangerous precedent, obviously there is a large segment of the player population who seems to think sch is OP and needed nerfing, rather then them just learning how to play better. who is to say that after scholars adapt to this change(and we will) they won't continue to nerf the scholar class into the ground until its unplayable as long as people are complaining about it. As I said before the scholar class is extremely difficult to play well but when you do play it well you become difficult to kill people are mistaking talent with core imbalance

[Hailie]

my biggest concern is this sets a dangerous precedent, obviously there is a large segment of the player population who seems to think sch is OP and needed nerfing, rather then them just learning how to play better. who is to say that after scholars adapt to this change(and we will) they won't continue to nerf the scholar class into the ground until its unplayable as long as people are complaining about it. As I said before the scholar class is extremely difficult to play well but when you do play it well you become difficult to kill people are mistaking talent with core imbalance

This I agree with^

[Divinemight]

Not sure if anyone have played WoW here, but if you do, you probably remember warriors at the beginning of Pandaria. I just found this post:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9554405665

Found this quote from a Warrior:

wowowow.... Wait a second... so your going to edit on the MAIN ABILITY of warriors... CHARGE!? We had that since !@#$ing Vanilla! Keep it the same! let it have its stun. Make "root" a talent or something... Glyph... Whatever! Just dont Change Charge!

Its like Blasphemy against the Class!

Guess someone couldnt handle a warrior in a duel... %^-*ing noobs with l2p issues... oh nono lets just Rape warriors primary ability... Sure it will be fun to see retards rooting everything... !

It seems L2P is always the defense statement agaisnt own class/job being nerf. Did it ever works? Unfortunately, no. The main reason why I made this thread is provide an opportunity for NA players to voice their own feedbacks about Scholar instead of Japanse players only. But, what has this thread been derailed into? Just pointless of ranting agaisnt Scholar and Scholars are busy at defending themselves. There is no analyze on the Scholar's mechanics and its impact on overal Frontline. Why would our own English fourm moderator even bother to deliver our suggestions to Japanse Devs when there is not points to be deliver?

[Dimitrii]

Relying on another player's ignorance of not using an ability to remove one of your own is not a good game design. I can see getting away with it in Frontlines because its full of noobs anyway, but in Wolves' Den where there are more serious pvp players that know what they're doing, the removal of the Aetherflow stacks is going to be a hinderance, especially with a PLD/MNK combo. So I expect to be seeing more PLD/MNK comps in Wolves Den where in that case SCHs will be much more easier to kill in an arena where the healer is the deciding factor of who wins the match or not.

This is a pretty serious issue now indeed but its severely undermined by the even greater issue of wolves den being a pretty dead event atm (at least on primal data center). Maybe thats why the developers were so narrow-minded and only focused on the impact this would have on frontlines instead of the collateral damage it has on sch wolves den.

[Zyphione]

1

I am interested in your definition! Could you provide more insight into the meaning of 'extremely difficult'?
I have read some of the definitions (some statistical and Divine did post a segment before) from the JP forums and other sites but I have not found many in the NA section.
The many threads about Scholars have never explicitly explained how the class has the highest learning curve in PvP to not deserve being toned down. I have not posted very much but the only examples being given of them to not be toned down is 'if you have seen what I have seen you will know'.

[jlewiss]

I am interested in your definition! Could you provide more insight into the meaning of 'extremely difficult'?
I have read some of the definitions (some statistical and Divine did post a segment before) from the JP forums and other sites but I have not found many in the NA section.
The many threads about Scholars have never explicitly explained how the class has the highest learning curve in PvP to not deserve being toned down. I have not posted very much but the only examples being given of them to not be toned down is 'if you have seen what I have seen you will know'.

My reasons for saying that is because IMO scholar and obviously by some connection WHM, are the only class you cant just run into and attack things and expect to succeed. Anyone who has someone on their team who was dps but switched to healer because no one else had one is the perfect testament to this. Play ing healer in pvp even marginally well requires a thorough understanding of your pve AND pvp skills. It's not like bard where you can survive without enliven/blast shot/far shot etc. you functionally cannot operate as a healer in pvp unless you know apropriate timing for this like attunement and equanimity. The fact you are a healer instantly makes you target number 1 which is something lets say a dragoon or a warrior doesn't have to worry about. All of your skills (with the exception of regen lustrate and benediction) are interruptible and guess what, a healer unable to use skills makes them 100% useless. Aside from that there is the added pressure of being the deciding factor as to whether or not a flag gets captured, kill a team's healer and watch how quickly the rest of them go down. That is a lot of responsibility to put on a couple of players. All in all I say scholar is the most difficult class to play because it requires that you don't **** up and have a constant awareness of what is going on in the fight and what skills you have available to you/on CD.
If your a monk you can pretty much just run in and attack things and still be mildly efficient, as a paladin you can run in and attack things and be mildly efficient, if your a scholar and you run in and just start trying to heal your going to find yourself frustrated for the 10 seconds before your dead because you thought surecast was a useless skill and didn't put it on your hotbar. Also look at wolves den, there isn't even a learning curve for healers there so much as a steep cliff drop off. For a healer in wolves den you dead within 10-20 seconds if you dont know what you are doing and a dead healer means a dead team in WD.
The only reason i would rank scholar slightly harder then WHM is the lack of CC abilities with blizzard 2 being the only real option and that requires giving up a CC slot.