Was Coil 2 and Ramuh extreme over tune?

[Taruranto]

Coil talk usually brings the rude know it all downed t9 players and the casuals who seem to have a much lighter and nicer attitude.

Hmmm... I wonder.

... Sarcasm?

[Triston]

snip

No, the point is that every style of play should have room to progress; why is anyone playing if they're not trying to improve in some fashion? Pre-2.3 there were plenty of options for casual raiders: Primal EX, first Coil, etc. I banged my head against Titan Ex in duty finder, a few times every other day or so, for weeks in 2.2 before finally lucking out and getting a good group for the clear.

I am perfectly aware that I am well behind the curve for i110 gear, and I'm (take note of this, it's important --->) *~*okay with not having access to the best gear without doing SCOB*~* but why is there no content for people like me? Ramuh EX was released without solo queue DF privilege, so it's ST once a week, then Hunts or bust. Let's also not forget that even if I could do REX, it AND ST drop i100; Hunts remain better in every single way. (minus acquiring a single UAT) There is currently no progression content at all for casual raiders; this isn't just a whiny scrub whining, it's a fact.

[saeedaisspecial]

No, the point is that every style of play should have room to progress; why is anyone playing if they're not trying to improve in some fashion? Pre-2.3 there were plenty of options for casual raiders: Primal EX, first Coil, etc. I banged my head against Titan Ex in duty finder, a few times every other day or so, for weeks in 2.2 before finally lucking out and getting a good group for the clear.
I am perfectly aware that I am well behind the curve for i110 gear, and I'm (take note of this, it's important --->) *~*okay with not having access to the best gear without doing SCOB*~* but why is there no content for people like me? Ramuh EX was released without solo queue DF privilege, so it's ST once a week, then Hunts or bust. Let's also not forget that even if I could do REX, it AND ST drop i100; Hunts remain better in every single way. (minus acquiring a single UAT) There is currently no progression content at all for casual raiders; this isn't just a whiny scrub whining, it's a fact.

Both Leviathan and Moogle were also locked outside of Duty Finder. So that point about Ramuh is irrelevant (and inaccurate since you said pre-2.3 things were fine).
Second, what is your logic that i100 isn't progression, just because it isn't i110 it's worthless? An upgrade from i90 to i100 is worthless because it's not i110? Okay then.
Also, you have options.
You can go and learn the content that's available, even casually it's not impossible to do. You just, for whatever reason, don't want to and it's clear that this is the case based on your "Welp no DF I can't do Ramuh" comment.
You're ignoring content that's available to you and then complaining that it's not enough.

[Taruranto]

No, the point is that every style of play should have room to progress; why is anyone playing if they're not trying to improve in some fashion? Pre-2.3 there were plenty of options for casual raiders: Primal EX, first Coil, etc. I banged my head against Titan Ex in duty finder, a few times every other day or so, for weeks in 2.2 before finally lucking out and getting a good group for the clear.

I am perfectly aware that I am well behind the curve for i110 gear, and I'm (take note of this, it's important --->) *~*okay with not having access to the best gear without doing SCOB*~* but why is there no content for people like me? Ramuh EX was released without solo queue DF privilege, so it's ST once a week, then Hunts or bust. Let's also not forget that even if I could do REX, it AND ST drop i100; Hunts remain better in every single way. (minus acquiring a single UAT) There is currently no progression content at all for casual raiders; this isn't just a whiny scrub whining, it's a fact.

Ramuh Ex works the same way as Levi and Mog. And it's not like T5 gears and Ex went anywhere...


I'm mildly confused on what you want. You want to progress casually... how? You casually get level 110 gears? Aren't hunts casual enough anyway? If your idea to progress casually it's level 100 gears then you have soldiery, ST and hunts...

Honestly, it seems to me you just have an issue with the lack of content *in general* and you just realized this now because you started playing late (while people who were here since the beta have been lamenting the lack of worthwhile content other than coil ever since)

[Krr]

Never mind that if you raid casually and are (primarily) in the random-PF phase of your career, a thing that happens frequently if you don't do raid content semi-regularly, finding effective clear groups for outdated content is a massive chore because there is no real incentive to come back to them except in farm groups that aggressively clear-police.

All this 'bridge content' obsessed with jacking up item levels for casual players really just destroys the longevity of the game, honestly. Used to be people got to learn their classes before they were thrown at the ten ton death dragon sitting on the ten million ton death dragon's right hand.

There is a problem with a game's content and community structure when it ceases being about teaching and playing to the best of your individual ability and starts being about manipulating extrinsic factors beyond the game itself to maximize your digital nuggets per hour, solely because not maximizing them turns the game into a soul crushing experience.

I'm mildly confused on what you want. You want to progress casually... how? You casually get level 110 gears? Aren't hunts casual enough anyway? If your idea to progress casually it's level 100 gears then you have soldiery, ST and hunts...

"Content that's semi-puggable without being totally braindead" would be a nice start. Most servers don't have decent enough PFs to snap-form competent endgame raid groups out of thin air, especially if you can't or don't clear-check. You are confusing 'casual raider who can't afford a large amount of time doing the equivalent of job-searching' with 'person who wants content you don't have to try at'.

There was relevant engaging raid content that didn't require a premade or teamspeak or heinous amounts of exclusory clearchecking in 2.0, 2.1, and 2.2 to be playable. That does not exist in 2.3.

[Triston]

snip

Did you miss the part about PF being dead on my server for these particular fights? It could be the time of day when I make my vain efforts, but on Balmung when I play, PF is full of Hunt parties, Atma parties, and weekly T6-8 clear parties (exp only will queue for T9 to check)
The intermediate part does not exist, because of the content vacuum.

And an important response to the part about "i100 isn't progression because it's not i110": not true, but i100 is both A. not BiS or even casual-BiS, (casual BiS meaning excluding SCOB loot) therefore not something you set your sights specifically on acquiring unless you want the glamor, and B and more importantly, it has NO IMPACT on your ability to upgrade to i110. You buy weathered gear because you need it to get i110; you clear Twin because you have to to unlock SCOB; as a SCOB raider you get i100 filler gear from ST because that extra 10 levels might give your DPS the push needed to down a boss and get the i110 HA for that slot. Have you ever played WoW? Do you make sure you go through the entire Throne of Thunder to get every class-relevant epic from there before moving on to Siege of Orgrimmar? Fuck no, you get what you NEED to progress, with the goal always being the same for any MMO player, casual or hardcore: get BiS, one piece at a time. Most players, most hardcore raiders even will NEVER achieve BiS in every slot for a given set of raid content, but that's always the carrot on the stick.
Here in FFXIV, getting i100 filler gear from ST does nothing; I don't need it to get casual-BiS, because casual-BiS is All Hunts All Day Huntapalooza 2014: The Huntening. You can do hunts in i50 gear. This is of course entirely SE's fault for attaching i110 to Hunts, therefore pushing casual-BiS and the endgame for casuals up to i110, but also locking them to a single form of terrible, terrible, terrible content.
So no, getting i100 is NOT progression; I want to do Ramuh because I want to see all content, and I want the Ramuh book to see what it looks like for glamor, but it's not progression. There is absolutely no gear progression for casual DoW/DoM outside of hunts, because all gear acquired after you finish your level 50 job quest is completely irrelevant to acquiring it. Getting i90 even is just incidental because you leak Myth out of every orifice as you do hunts.

tl;dr Ramuh and ST should have had i110 gear to start with, OR (better option because I know you're going to bitch incessantly about non-SCOB scum having access to good gear) hunts should never have given access to i110; this would have kept casual-BiS at 100, (110 accessories from oils) people would spam Ramuh like they did Levi, and all would be right with the casual world. As-is there is only hunts, so yes I suppose I am being a whiner, but only whining about hunts because hunts SUCK.

[KyrsIsley]

Having Levi and Moogle ex and now Ramuh Ex not available through DF when released to me personally is a pretty bad decision on SE's part. It doesn't affect me but I know plenty of people who would've liked to have the option to grind or bash their head against the fight via DF over and over.

When the first three primal extreme were released I had a BRD friend who would just grind via DF endlessly until he got his accessories. When Levi ex and Moogle ex were released, he was extremely annoyed at the fact that he is not able to do the same anymore. He would've grinded endlessly to get his Levi mirror if he had to, he grinded during primetime through PF and would've used DF for off peak time but that options wasn't available. He is OK with the fact that he may need to wait 40min to an hr to get in, he is also OK with the fact that he may only get 1 win out of every 3 queues, and that he will have to lot against strangers until he got what he is after. However, the option simply wasn't available. While my server has a very lively PF community, but it still has its off peak time, and you won't be able to find anything through PF and has to rely on DF to bridge the gap.

[Krr]

While my server has a very lively PF community, but it still has its off peak time, and you won't be able to find anything through PF and has to rely on DF to bridge the gap.

PF dead-times by server have increased dramatically since the introduction of 2.3, too. Excal used to have pretty much no dead time when I moved in in 2.2; now you can't find anything past midnight PST.

Speaking anecdotally, of course.

[Taruranto]

"Content that's semi-puggable without being totally braindead" would be a nice start.

That, already is. It's not much SE fault if people can't grasp simple thing as "DO NOT HIT SPINY" or memorize a simple script fight (Titan does the same things. Over and Over. Over and over...). And the dungeons and ST are literally retard-proof. And all give you level 100 gears.

Well, I guess It's kinda SE fault since you can reach level 50 and get level 100 gears (now 110!) without knowing how to play your job, there is no skill-check with instanced and DF, unlike XI who continually tried to make you a better player.

[Exstal]

Well, I guess It's kinda SE fault since you can reach level 50 and get level 100 gears (now 110!) without knowing how to play your job, there is no skill-check with instanced and DF, unlike XI who continually tried to make you a better player.

Which is comedic because they slap you with Coil and extreme primals and you're forced to learn to play. Yet people refuse this and want it for free.