Was Coil 2 and Ramuh extreme over tune?

[LunarEmerald]

I think the dps check for Ramuh is too tight. It should be lowered.

[Crimson-Falcon]

I think the dps check for Ramuh is too tight. It should be lowered.

the only hard part in the whole fight tbh

hell i had i100+ DPS players and we barely made it

beside dps check the fight have rest is a complete joke

[Krr]

I think the dps check for Ramuh is too tight. It should be lowered.

Gonna be honest: The problem with the REX DPS check is that it requires every DPS to be playing their job correctly unless the DPS are significantly overgeared, and none of the content before it is helping DPS get practice in playing their job correctly any more. The extreme opacity of how damage mechanics work in the game (and MMOs in general) isn't helping them learn, either.

I pin this strictly on the game. When older, puggable fights were relevant, they still placed an impetus on players to learn and perform their way up. Now everyone is thrown into the deep end of the pool with some cute looking i90 floaties and told to swim - with absolutely no preparation on anything but how to doggy-paddle.

Note that this is different from "Waaah those casuals have my gear!". It's more "S-E isn't preparing any new players for any of their insanely hard content now."

We need a much better way of metering out content difficulty that isn't just "higher ilvl req = harder fight at that ilvl" now, because the item levels aren't going to stop inflating any time soon.

[Edli]

Gonna be honest: The problem with the REX DPS check is that it requires every DPS to be playing their job correctly unless the DPS are significantly overgeared, and none of the content before it is helping DPS get practice in playing their job correctly any more.

I agree. The dps check may be too tight but is not impossible. All it requires is for the 4 dps to know their classes well. A player will not become better unless he is forced to overcome a roadblock. Right now because of hunts and soldiery being out for a while a lot of fights are really tame when it comes to dps checks. Especially considering a lot of them have echo. That will breed lazy dps that will jump on second coil later on.

So the latest extreme primal is challenging their rotation, big deal. If they can't pass it is obviously something they're doing wrong because when it comes to gear almost everyone is sitting at i100-110 now.

[Taika]

Gonna be honest: The problem with the REX DPS check is that it requires every DPS to be playing their job correctly unless the DPS are significantly overgeared, and none of the content before it is helping DPS get practice in playing their job correctly any more. The extreme opacity of how damage mechanics work in the game (and MMOs in general) isn't helping them learn, either.

I pin this strictly on the game. When older, puggable fights were relevant, they still placed an impetus on players to learn and perform their way up. Now everyone is thrown into the deep end of the pool with some cute looking i90 floaties and told to swim - with absolutely no preparation on anything but how to doggy-paddle.

I think this is a big issue. Fresh level 50s, or those players that didn't do extremes or first coil before echo and current item level, basically fly through all content in i100-i110 gear. Echo and item level have nerfed all the fights in the way that players don't actually have to learn to play their jobs very well until they hit turn 6 (if even then with full i110 parties now). I consider myself to be a better than average WHM right now, but I've gotten to this point by being absolutely horrible first in original relic primals, and then getting gradually better in first coil (where we actually had to plan everything carefully to be able to get through bosses), first three extremes and especially turn 5. Fresh level 50s and people new to the highest difficulty endgame content have never had these learning experiences. I'm not saying they're bad by default, but they've simply not been prepared for the content by the game.

[Triston]

snip

This is absolutely correct and the fault of iLvl creep; the content you do in i90 is a dozen times more punishing and unforgiving than what you did in i55, but new players are simply not prepared for it even through story mode fights. It's SE's onus to fix that, then maybe we can have a broader spectrum of content that isn't the current "pathetic" vs "SCOB"; it's not the new players' faults that they get creamed in the first real fights they attempt because they got i90-110 gear shoveled down their throats by the game itself, causing them to coast through what was supposed to be learning content, but the result of that is elitist raiders being gigantic assholes to them, followed by newbies whining until said content gets nerfed into the ground, (Echo) followed by the same raiders complaining that the newbies are ruining 'their' game.