Your thoughts on the direction of this game?

[Gilthas]

1. FFXI's lockouts were much worse than the lockouts we currently have in FFXIV. Don't forget that in FFXIV you're only locked out of coil if you actually beat the dungeon, and you can spam CT until you get the item you want. Lockouts in FFXI were applied the moment you entered an area. And this isn't even considering the lockouts behind the King's system.

2. AV is a horrible example of challenging content. First, stuff gets killed fast in FFXIV because, like I mentioned above, you can spam the content until you beat it. You couldn't spam AV in FFXI. Pair the inability to spam AV with the ridiculously obscure mechanics of the fight and you have your explanation why AV took so long before a legitimate kill appeared.

3. You don't like that we can teleport everywhere? Then don't ****ing use them. Don't force the entire playerbase to rely on a teleportation system where only WHM or /WHM could move around freely.

As for the actual topic of this discussion. I'm greatly disliking that they're putting so much things behind a grind (chocobo raising, DoH/DoL i70 and i75 tools, glamours) or implementing restrictions on what our characters can do (desynthesis). If I had to make a bet I'd say that the FFXI team is behind these.

The other big thing is how the old content is getting outdated. There's little to no reason to do the first Coil and the Ex fights are heading in that direction too. They need to give players a good reason to keep doing this content so it remains a relevant option.

[Tupsi]

1. FFXI's lockouts were much worse than the lockouts we currently have in FFXIV\

Guessing this is sarcasm. If something has a daily lockout (JP Midnight), if you did it before JP midnight you can literally do it back to back even if it ticks over to the refresh period (JP midnight) - In XIV, you'll still receive your lockout if you do x and it ticks over. For example if you enter Circus Tower 20 minutes before and didn't get your item last week, but it hits the refresh timer while you're inside, that counts for your new weekly lockout, not last weeks. That is actually worse than XI's. Let's also not forget, XI had a content style where you'd cycle content and content systems retained use..unlike XIV's where Coil is the only progressive content and is on a weekly lockout.

AV is a horrible example of challenging content

So is citing Savage Coil or Coil 2 (Team Jump Rope isn't really challenging.)

If I had to make a bet I'd say that the FFXI team is behind these.

You'd lose that bet, since the XI team is actually introducing new concepts and even content systems in some of their monthly updates..compared to XIV that hasn't expanded much since its last year's release.

[Gilthas]

Guessing this is sarcasm. If something has a daily lockout (JP Midnight), if you did it before JP midnight you can literally do it back to back even if it ticks over to the refresh period (JP midnight) - In XIV, you'll still receive your lockout if you do x and it ticks over. For example if you enter Circus Tower 20 minutes before and didn't get your item last week, but it hits the refresh timer while you're inside, that counts for your new weekly lockout, not last weeks. That is actually worse than XI's. Let's also not forget, XI had a content style where you'd cycle content and content systems retained use..unlike XIV's where Coil is the only progressive content and is on a weekly lockout.

God, you do this over and over again. Get this through your thick skull already: you posting an example of FFXI being "better" does not invalidate all my examples where FFXI was "worse". Even the example you use is ridiculously extreme and can be easily countered with "If you get your CT item right before the reset you can get your next CT item in a matter of minutes". Compare that to all the lockout systems of FFXI that I mentioned.

So is citing Savage Coil or Coil 2 (Team Jump Rope isn't really challenging.)

Oh really? And what exactly is challenging? You like to put FFXI on a pedestal, but difficulty in that game was for the most part merely rng. You may not consider "Team Jump Rope" challenging, but it's still well above the challenge that existed in FFXI. FFXI didn't really have much in the "skillful play" department.

You'd lose that bet, since the XI team is actually introducing new concepts and even content systems in some of their monthly updates..compared to XIV that hasn't expanded much since its last year's release.

And who is the judge of that? You? If you have proven anything around here is that you're not objective with pretty much anything when it comes to FFXI.

[hyperhelios]

That is actually worse than XI's.

Yeah, but can be argued either way looking at how you both put it. Counting spawns and inability to claim HNMs as a lockout would have to take the cake for me, though. I camped Khim for like 6 months to get a haut and it took a year after the PLD ahead of me to get a ring from KB; don't forget 99% of the community was pretty much locked out of this content just by design. If you only needed king camps you were still locked out from attempting a claim for a week. I guess it depends on how you define lockouts in both games and still have to factor in drop rates.

[Velhart]

Yeah, but can be argued either way looking at how you both put it. Counting spawns and inability to claim HNMs as a lockout would have to take the cake for me, though. I camped Khim for like 6 months to get a haut and it took a year after the PLD ahead of me to get a ring from KB; don't forget 99% of the community was pretty much locked out of this content just by design. If you only needed king camps you were still locked out from attempting a claim for a week. I guess it depends on how you define lockouts in both games and still have to factor in drop rates.

So many poor Monks never got their black belt.

[Tupsi]

-Tried to spin around-.

CT has no weekly loot restriction atm. ST does though and if you get your item before reset at any time you can get your new item again unless it ticks over, which isn't an extreme example at all because some people try to play the system last minute, you'll get a new lockout for that week rather than last week's item and this week's item.

How is me going into Dynamis 20 minutes before the daily lockout and going in immediately again after JP midnight ticks over worse? You never explained that. You yourself said it was worse, I didn't say it was better, I stated XIV's was worse in comparsion because it actually is. You seem to confuse tiered content with lockout - Einherjar for example is tiered content, you're only locked out of the main chamber until you beat the others.

[Blackheart]

So many poor Monks never got their black belt.

i was one of those monks...................................

[Gucci_Charms]

Forever lockouts and end-game community divide.

[Souljacker]

I'm not sure that XI should really be the measuring stick we are using for the content in this game. There were things that were worse and things that were better, but even at its peak XI barely boasted a true playerbase of 500k actively playing subscribers. This game seems to be heading back in that direction with a lot of the systems being implemented. It's like SE isn't comfortable with a large playerbase and they want to go back to a lower, more manageable number so they add systems that are exclusive to a low population by design.

[hyperhelios]

So many poor Monks never got their black belt.

Yeah. For most people it wasn't even a lockout; it was just a wall they weren't allowed to climb over (unless they paid like Mexicans). I did have a belt, though. My first HNM LS had a ridiculous amount of MNKs and we tried to gear them out for Bahamut burns.