So resetting's against the rules now?

[Appleh4x]

Take a guess what that L is for in LGM.

I'm sorry but what does Sage Sundi have to do with this?

[Kyroc]

@Appleh4x

If I'm in a party of 8 and we are on our way to do something and on our way we happen to come across an unclaimed A mark and no one is around. We are like awesome, let's kill it. We engage the mark and are happily fighting away and then you come along. You see mark is at 80% health and start spamming your hunt LS's the location.

While waiting for them to get there you start trying to get hate and reset the mob so you and all your friends can get credit. If you are successful, please explain to me how this is fair on my group? How can you say you are not intentionally disrupting our gameplay?

[Ghishlain]

And pulling early could cause 50 people to lose credit as well. It was the opinion of this GM that the act of early pulling is not disruption, but since the ToS are not clearly defined I see it as more disruptive to deny 50 people mark points than 5 people mark points. This is my interpretation and there is no reason for it to be any less valid than your interpretation. 50 GM reports for harassment > 5 reports

My (and I know it'll be extremely polarizing) opinion of the matter is there is no such thing as an "early pull". The fact that player(s) give locations, get all their peers together, set pull times etc are a common courtesy extended by the player(s) who found the mark to begin with. If that player(s) finds the mark on his / her / their own accord and decides they don't want to share the information and pulls the mob themselves, what right do WE have "as the faceless horde" to reset that persons mark?

Trampling the rights of 1-4 individuals for the rights of 50+ is not equality.

I know what your next argument will be. "We set a time, we're gathering, and someone pulls before the given time placed by a select individual". I reiterate my point, there is no such thing as an "early pull" as defined by the Devs or GMs. "Pull times" was a concept created by the players to help assist as many players as possible to get full credit (which I will add is a very admirable thing to do), but again, is ultimately a "common courtesy" extended by the server population. The effects of people choosing to not listen to that "set time"?

...well, let's just say I imagine it'll be possible to write a PhD dissertation on the effects a system like hunts have on the overall affects of MMO server dynamics and player interaction (as shown by this thread as a whole).

I am also amused at the fact that if S-E chooses not to extend the Hunt rewards for 2.4, the entire system will die out as people will move onto the next system to get their i120-i130 upgrades coming 2.4+ and that Hunts will then becomes just a vanity system / Alex farm generator (thus making this whole conversation moot! Woo!)

[Appleh4x]

@Appleh4x

If I'm in a party of 8 and we are on our way to do something and on our way we happen to come across an unclaimed A mark and no one is around. We are like awesome, let's kill it. We engage the mark and are happily fighting away and then you come along. You see mark is at 80% health and start spamming your hunt LS's the location.

...

If I arrived on a mark that was down 20% I wouldn't try to reset it at all, since I arrived late. I would probably question you guys about why you wouldn't share the info about the mark since having more people there won't hurt your credit and then blist you if you gave me a response like "I play how I want" since that attitude and play style denotes you aren't someone I'd like to play with.

[Appleh4x]

My (and I know it'll be extremely polarizing) opinion of the matter is there is no such thing as an "early pull". The fact that player(s) give locations, get all their peers together, set pull times etc are a common courtesy extended by the player(s)

Well that's just like... your opinion, man.

This is an MMO, and the thing we are discussing has the ability to be shared at no loss to anyone. Early pulling means you are unwilling to share, and therefore not someone who is good for the community. I don't report early pullers but I do blist them all. I'm choosing to not play with people who are only out for their own benefit, as i believe MMOs are about the progression of many affecting the (virtual) world, not the progression of a few who are only out to get their own rewards.

[Ghishlain]

Well that's just like... your opinion, man.

And that is your opinion in the matter. I see we are in agreement about opinions =p

[Appleh4x]

And that is your opinion in the matter. I see we are in agreement about opinions =p

Which is my point about this whole matter, morality is just personal opinions. Just like how people can't be reported for early pulls, they shouldn't be in trouble for resets unless it was done for a malicious reason.

[Thayos]

Early pulling means you are unwilling to share, and therefore not someone who is good for the community.

Hmmm... I wouldn't go that far (and I'm clearly pro-courtesy, anti-early pulling).

There could be times when it's totally socially appropriate for people to claim these mobs when others aren't around, and then there are times when it's more socially appropriate to hold your horses and wait for others. Just because someone attempts low-manning an NM doesn't mean that person is the type who is "unwilling to share." To say that is just as bad as denying such a thing as early pulling.

[Appleh4x]

Hmmm... I wouldn't go that far (and I'm clearly pro-courtesy, anti-early pulling).

There are times when it's totally socially appropriate for people to claim these mobs when others aren't around, and then there are times when it's more socially appropriate to hold your horses and wait for others. Just because someone attempts low-manning an NM doesn't mean that person is the type who is "unwilling to share." All kinds of factors could have led that person to believe he or she was in the "right" to make the claim.

Yeah, early morning hunt parties are a good example. I'm talking about if you have the ability to share, and you don't for no discernible reason other than being selfish.

[Kyroc]

Snip due to character limit

Why should we have to share the location with everyone on the server if my party of 8 can handle killing the mark by ourselves? Plus the fight is way more interesting and enjoyable as a single party than waiting for a few minutes for 100+ people to arrive and the mark to be zerged down in less than 30 seconds. Why do you feel that you or anyone else on the server are so entitled to that mark?

If I came across a group killing an A mark in this fashion I would be thinking Ok they found it, they can handle it, I will just help attack it and get what credit I can while it's still alive without interfering with them.

I don't understand your sense of entitlement at all.