What's your opinion on the "Shoulder Tackle" skill for Monks?

[Crxssroad]

This. It was usable at any distance once you were in the minimum range requirement in 1.23, and I really hope they change it to be this way again.

I think the only reason this was implemented was to limit the use of its stun effect. Without that limitation, the stun would actually be useful. Lol But I get the gripe, I wish I could use it at shorter distances as well, sometimes I'll run the opposite direction from an enemy because it's more "viable" to step a few yalms away to use shoulder tackle but it makes no real sense.

Hmm, I don't think MNKs should chase mobs. If ranged picks up adds, either the tank was too late with generating aggro or that DPS attacked too soon or the wrong target. Let's not forget it's still group cohesion, an MMO. The situation you describe should not happen. If it does happen, ranged is close enough for your next ability to land. Bootshine/dragon kick the boss, then start running and twin snake/true strike the add etc..

Stun at Levi is not counter productive. If people can not communicate, it gets messy. I was in a group who used that stun. When Levi just came out, that add was a minor DPS check. There was no time for the tank to build aggro and stun at the same time. He just did his enmity combo and then at 80-ish % I (the MNK) shoulder tackled in which counted as the first stun. Worked as a charm. With your reasoning: when a tank flashes in T7 and picks up a renaud which he shouldn't, flash now is counter productive? I think you're reasoning is a bit biased. :P

Don't get me wrong, I looove MNK. Just posted my vanity in the vanity thread because I like the job so much. I just don't think it would be balanced if we could teleport to every mob and back to the boss. For endgame it would be massively overpowered unless they would nerf our potency which would be far worse than having shoulder tackle at 30 seconds.

I think there are situations where we should chase mobs, most often in situations where we're the only other DPS. I say this because it seems kind of unfair(to the team as a whole) that I can't help out with burning adds simply because I can't reach them in time. Garuda's razor plumes, for example, are not a big deal in and of themselves, but it can be a little overwhelming to let an archer handle them on his/her own regardless of how weak they are. In this situation, a lancer has early access to a long range skill that they can put into effect(I don't know the name but I"m plenty sure yo know what I"m talking about ^^). But I don't think monks should have any sort of long range attack to mitigate this, simply because there's no logical need for it. If Shoulder Tackle were more intuitive to use, shorter cool down, shorter activation range(I'm talking about the need to be 100 miles away) at the cost of perhaps more TP and loss of stun effect it would be a lot more helpful.

And I don't know about the specifics of Levi. I haven't even done it. ^^ I was only going off of what monkeytheman was saying. It seems like you had a good opportunity to use it to its full effect, which I'm not going to refute. I don't know everything, especially not what other classes can use since I lack in the experience department, but I think that, in your situation if Shoulder Tackle did not have the stun effect, couldn't you just have easily zeroed in with Shoulder Tackle and then used Steal Peak? They're both instant casts and ogcd(right? I'm not playing right now so I'm only going off of memory).

As for teleporting to every mob and back to the boss; in theory that's exactly what one could do, but we're forgetting that TP starvation is real. lol As long as we're keeping up our GL stacks with the basic rotation(the cycling through each stance), our TP regeneration doesn't exactly exceed our usage and every ogcd thrown into the mix puts further strain on our TP consumption. We couldn't conceivably teleport to every enemy, kill it, and then move back to the boss. As a counter balance, I do propose an increase in the TP consumption of shoulder tackle to prevent this sort of abuse. There are situations where we will still lose our GL anyway, especially endgame, where bosses(at least the ones I've fought) move out of the arena and leave no targets behind. There's really nothing we can do in that situation.

However, I'm not saying my reasoning isn't biased. I'm still a little green and I don't know the mechanics of many of these dungeons since I generally don't run them anyway. I haven't even gotten past T1 because I've had no inclination to run the other 8 so I'll take your word on it.

[monkeytheman]

And I don't know about the specifics of Levi. I haven't even done it. ^^ I was only going off of what monkeytheman was saying. It seems like you had a good opportunity to use it to its full effect, which I'm not going to refute. I don't know everything, especially not what other classes can use since I lack in the experience department, but I think that, in your situation if Shoulder Tackle did not have the stun effect, couldn't you just have easily zeroed in with Shoulder Tackle and then used Steal Peak?

Basically, the add should be stun-locked...and other people stunning make this impossible. When anyone other than the off-tank stuns it (should be a paladin handling it) it makes the chain stun ineffective, leading to the add fearing everyone off the boat. Dragoons and monks like to use Spineshatter and Shoulder-tackle for gap closers...but if they do it here (leg sweep and steel peak are no-no's as well here) it will wipe everyone if the dps isn't absurdly high. It isnt the skill's fault, its user error but it irks me every time i see it happen.

[Crxssroad]

Basically, the add should be stun-locked...and other people stunning make this impossible. When anyone other than the off-tank stuns it (should be a paladin handling it) it makes the chain stun ineffective, leading to the add fearing everyone off the boat. Dragoons and monks like to use Spineshatter and Shoulder-tackle for gap closers...but if they do it here (leg sweep and steel peak are no-no's as well here) it will wipe everyone if the dps isn't absurdly high. It isnt the skill's fault, its user error but it irks me every time i see it happen.

Ah, no, I understood that the DPS shouldn't be stunning in this particular situation, steal peak(and leg sweep for dragoons) included. Abzoluut was telling me about a situation where shoulder tackle's stun had proven useful and I was only explaining how one could still use Shoulder Tackle to stun a far away target(by chaining Shoulder Tackle and Steal Peak) if Shoulder Tackle had its stun effect removed. Of course, this assumes steal peak is off cool down.

I'm not blaming the skill, particularly. It is up to the player whether to use it or not. I'm just saying that if a Monk stunning is disadvantageous in any given situation, then they lose the other benefit of Shoulder Tackle(which is honestly the more useful of the three things shoulder tackle does; zone-in/damage/stun).

P.S. This 1000 character limit is ridiculous.

[whiskeybravo]

I personally find the CD just about right, 30 sec goes by quick in a fight like T6 you can break vines/ST back easily. I wish DRG had something similar on a 30 sec CD (*cough* *cough* SSD *cough*) I do support removing the stun effect though, there's really no reason for it to stun, it's not a move you can actually use to stun something when needed, it just messes up stuns for things that do need to be stunned properly. Other than that, though, I think the range and CD are OK.

After thought: Even if the stun is designed for solo play, there isn't a first move positional like Heavy Thrust to even get off on monk. I guess unless you use PB, which is kinda silly for an open world mob anyways. Though I guess if you zipped around from mob to mob you might have a posititional ready where the stun would actually be useful and keep the mob from turning.

[Zoeila]

i love the stun effect in pvp but i would support losing it if ST gave 1 stack of GL.

[NinjaWeazel]

SHOULDER TACKLE!!!

[dday3six]

I've always maintained that Shoulder Tackle should be on a lower CD and have stun removed from it. Also on the topic of Greased Lightning I think it should be reduced to per buff level while at the same time either have it's duration extended or have the stacks decay individually. Either way making it easier to keep up.

[Ashkendor]

Shoulder Tackle.......hate it. Monks keep stunning the Wavetooth Sahagin with it in Leviathan EX and make me cry inside when I'm the offtank :P But seriously, I think it is fine how it is.....purpose is a gap closer......but please monks....STAHP using it to get to the caster add in Leviathan T.T

Agreed. The stun is annoying as hell because then they use it as a gap-closer and make stuns ineffective.

[thelastwarden]

I'm fine with shoulder tackle the way it is but I think increasing the stun time on it would solve a lot and it's a simple fix. mnks only mobility skill has a too many drawbacks in important situations. the stun time is too short to be used on t5 dreads and that one Levi add but it still has it's uses in the right conditions.

[ChaozK]

As someone who played monk pre 2.1 with Shoulder tackle being 90 sec CD, i think its pretty damn amazing now.

The thing with the stun on dps tools has always bugged me though, i wished they would find a solution for those tools to not give diminishing returns to the tanks stuns. Maybe use paralyze instead of stun or something.