1.17 > 1.18 = 3+ months. 1.18 > 1.19 = ???

[Shipp]

The problem is that better games haven been overhauled in this timeframe, and it's still not "in order". 1.18 isn't even out yet.

Is there a certain degree of leeway to be afford Square Enix considering this specific situation? Absolutely - a certain degree, but it's by no means a blanket excuse for XIV's state, nor should we, with 1.18 not even out yet and 1.19 likely not launching till a year after the game's release, be giving them kudos like that.

And this is what my main point was. They are being given way too much leeway by certain players. Just because they rushed a horrible game out does not mean that the new team fixing that mess is exempt from criticism.

Do you honestly believe 1.18 has been worked on only since May?

The trolls aside (at least they keep this thread alive) 1.18 has probably been worked on since January yet it still took 3 months to be implemented from the previous patch. Which is why I'm worried that 1.19 and beyond end up being the same way.

This is a main concern of mine too. They keep running into something that keeps delaying them suddenly. Something is wrong with that, be it horrible coding from the devs under Tanaka's instruction or something different entirely. I don't understand why people have faith that all these patches will be implemented by the end of the summer.

[Jennestia]

And this is what my main point was. They are being given way too much leeway by certain players.

Said players just aren't trying to be constantly cynical. You can't realistically judge a new team on stuff the old team did, especially when we actually haven't seen all that the new team have done yet. It's like you placing the blame on the poor intern who has to clean up the mess of the guy that got fired.

People really expect things to be done on a day by day basis, which is quite sad. Redoing a game from the foundation and up is years work no matter what company you work at, but of course the cynics would never believe that. So it's not certain players that give "leeway", it's just some people actually realize and understand things take a long time.

[Betelgeuzah]

People really expect things to be done on a day by day basis, which is quite sad. Redoing a game from the foundation and up is years work no matter what company you work at, but of course the cynics would never believe that. So it's not certain players that give "leeway", it's just some people actually realize and understand things take a long time.

So, we finally back to what the thread was about?

Day by day basis is meaningless, but when the month by month basis keeps proving to be unsatisfactory there is a problem.

Comparisons are not ridiculous. The market doesn't tolerate excuses. Either you are competitive or you go down crashing. SE is an underdog but the market economy doesn't give a damn. Can't make magic happen? Go bankrupt then.

Tsunamis, new managements, new development schedules...it's all meaningless to capitalism. And I want this game to succeed, knowing this makes me concerned. There are no excuses.

[Starlord]

So, we finally back to what the thread was about?

Day by day basis is meaningless, but when the month by month basis keeps proving to be unsatisfactory there is a problem.

Comparisons are not ridiculous. The market doesn't tolerate excuses. Either you are competitive or you go down crashing. SE is an underdog but the market economy doesn't give a damn. Can't make magic happen? Go bankrupt then.

Tsunamis, new managements, new development schedules...it's all meaningless to capitalism. And I want this game to succeed, knowing this makes me concerned. There are no excuses.

All this explains why you don't understand what SE is up against and take nothing into Consideration my dear friend.. I call it Impatient.

[Betelgeuzah]

All this explains why you don't understand what SE is up against and take nothing into Consideration my dear friend.. I call it Impatient.

Ever since the May letter telling us to wait until mid-June I haven't given enough of a damn to be impatient. 1.18 coming in a week? Cool I guess. 1.19 in 3 months? Whatever really.

all I want is for the game to succeed, and this pace isn't going to make it happen regardless of how many hurdles they must go through. Only that concerns me. The patches could come every half a year for all I care as long as they have meaningful impact.

Did you just make this thread to argue? You start off talking about how they've delayed the patches and how this seems to indicate the future patches will be off-schedule. Some agrees with you and you start white-knighting. Did I miss something here?

Yes you did: the reality is not black-and-white. People agree with me and say other things that are not true, which I disagree with.

[Shipp]

Yes you did: the reality is not black-and-white. People agree with me and say other things that are not true, which I disagree with.

So let's get this straight. You make a thread saying you don't think 1.19 will release on time. You make statements about 1.18 being delayed. We both state the exact same thing in this regard. I make a statement about how they are not moving "fast in comparison", I make a statement about how there is something wrong with the dev cycle, and I make a statement about how it's perfectly acceptable to compare them to other MMO devs.

What are you disagreeing with me about?

Game development 101:

Implementing systems = fundamental for progress -- If you get your systems implemented you have the ground work laid out to expand it even faster and further as the initial implementation is always the hurdle. Battle system overhauls and implementing the raid system and grand companies = fundamentals to expand the game.

Remember, Fundamental means the core of something, so having a core raid system in place is indeed fundamental.

"Core raid system in place" does not amount to implementing two full raids which have delayed the actual battle changes from being implemented. The core raid system would be the entrance to the raid, the ability to make a group size that the raid allows, and things of that nature. Core != full implementation.

[Betelgeuzah]

So let's get this straight. You make a thread saying you don't think 1.19 will release on time. You make statements about 1.18 being delayed. We both state the exact same thing in this regard. I make a statement about how they are not moving "fast in comparison", I make a statement about how there is something wrong with the dev cycle, and I make a statement about how it's perfectly acceptable to compare them to other MMO devs.

What are you disagreeing with me about?

You were saying that it shouldn't take this long to get them started on fixing the game. I disagreed.

But frankly it had more to do with your statement limiting their development to few features currently being implemented. Of course if they were to only develop basic AA and shake up enmity it wouldn't take this long.

Either way, for developing many features at once 3 months is a looong time to spend for balancing few of them. Which makes me suspect their QA team is insufficient for the task at hand.

[Shipp]

Said players just aren't trying to be constantly cynical. You can't realistically judge a new team on stuff the old team did, especially when we actually haven't seen all that the new team have done yet. It's like you placing the blame on the poor intern who has to clean up the mess of the guy that got fired.

People really expect things to be done on a day by day basis, which is quite sad. Redoing a game from the foundation and up is years work no matter what company you work at, but of course the cynics would never believe that. So it's not certain players that give "leeway", it's just some people actually realize and understand things take a long time.

The game has been out for 9 months. Yoshi has been on the team for about 7. 7 months is more than enough time to see at least the beginning of major overhauls. Not 7 months and 22 days later, but within those 7 months, there has been enough time to get this started earlier than now.

That's not being cynical, that's being realistic. I'm not saying SE is being lazy. I'm saying they're either understaffed or have a bottleneck problem somewhere in the development process, or they are trying to take on too much at once.

Shipp, you have no flipping clue the exact time of planning, developing, and implementing development for any game.

And you're on the dev team and know more, right? Didn't think so.

[Starlord]

The game has been out for 9 months. Yoshi has been on the team for about 7. 7 months is more than enough time to see at least the beginning of major overhauls. Not 7 months and 22 days later, but within those 7 months, there has been enough time to get this started earlier than now.

That's not being cynical, that's being realistic. I'm not saying SE is being lazy. I'm saying they're either understaffed or have a bottleneck problem somewhere in the development process, or they are trying to take on too much at once.

And you're on the dev team and know more, right? Didn't think so.

Some people don't know how to define "Realism" and Realism is an "Opinionated" word people define that in many ways depending on the circumstances.

[Shipp]

Some people don't know how to define "Realism" and Realism is an "Opinionated" word people define that in many ways depending on the circumstances.

Tell me, are you a programmer? Does your boss allow you nearly a month of pushbacks? Didn't think so.

I love the SE defenders. It's fine for them to mindlessly bash SE, however when people bring up valid points that substantial work could have been released before 7 months, they get their white-knight suit.

I know the definition of realistic, thanks. Is it realistic to compare the new dev team to other MMOs? Yes, because as was stated previously, this is capitalism. SE decided to ship the game, and now they're hurting because of it. Is that unfair for the new people? Of course, but this is a game that is still on shelves, people picking this up and not staying up to date on this game don't care about the woes of SE. They care that Rift/WoW/anything is far superior at this time, and that is where they're going to go.