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  1. #11
    Player
    Anova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    861
    Character
    Deneb Algiedi
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrlordd View Post
    My first point is that enmity is rather a simple thing to handle and achieve. It's not hard nor interesting (especially for paladins).
    It sounds like you just have burnout from playing a tank. I'd really just take a good long rest from it if possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warrlordd View Post
    My second is that as your gear increases, endgame bosses become trivial in damage done to you.
    That is to be expected. You will obviously do better in i100 gear than i55. That's the whole point of endgame gearing and players will be able to push themselves further. On that thought, there's a frontier for tank dps I think is viable, similar to white mage and cleric stance. May I suggest you try experimenting switching between shield and sword oath in those easy fights? I'd really like to see that catch on but my own PLD is still too low level to push it. As an alternative, I know I'm not the only one who spiritbinds in dungeons. You may consider exchanging some of your equipment for spiritbinds on the easier runs to maintain the difficulty level and earn some extra money/materia you need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warrlordd View Post
    My third is that since fights are being solo tanked, it reduces the desire for two tanks in a group, which is a bad thing for the tank population, as they are less needed and therefore more likely to roll something else.
    If anything, I think this is a sign there aren't enough tanks, so players are coming up with ways to use a single-tank to gather partyfinder groups faster. It doesn't help that for most 1-tank parties, everyone is massively overgeared for the content. Just consider it as an option only for elite tanks (not every tank can do it).

    Quote Originally Posted by Warrlordd View Post
    Here's what I suggest: Battle Fatigue. A mechanic that slowly causes you to take more and more damage the longer you tank something, and increases based on the rate of damage you take. Doesn't have to be a huge amount, but enough to cause you to control or think up of creative ways to reduce the amount of damage you are taking.

    And then while you are not tanking, you recover from the battle fatigue, perhaps stacking even higher defense proportional to how long you have not been being railed on by the boss.
    Several bosses in endgame already employ a similar dynamic. I would ask you to mind the learning curve and ask that you don't require it of fights short of Extreme and Coil. I know you're bored grinding dungeons for myth, but HM dungeons are designed for players below or at i90. I can see the new dungeons benefiting from it however (since they're approaching ADS level on the new HM). Stone Vigil HM and Hullbreaker have several examples of a boss that can't be tanked or escalating damage mechanics that SE is playing with. I wouldn't call them a resounding success, but they are in development. I don't know what more you can ask of them.
    (0)
    Last edited by Anova; 07-28-2014 at 01:59 AM.

  2. #12
    Player
    Ashkendor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    4,659
    Character
    Ashkendor Zahirr
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial View Post
    Lol, bringing up enrage method as if that's the basis of how the fight should be done.
    If you did T2 the correct way then tank swaps were necessary.
    Please re-read what I said and note that I mentioned fights that can be done with single tanks. That fight can be done with a single tank, so it's a perfectly good example. In any case, is there really a "correct" way to do it? Why fuss with the rot (especially in Derp Finder) when you can just heal through the damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anova View Post
    Stone Vigil HM and Hullbreaker have several examples of a boss that can't be tanked or escalating damage mechanics that SE is playing with. I wouldn't call them a resounding success, but they are in development. I don't know what more you can ask of them.
    I actually really like to see them thinking outside of the "tank and spank" box for a lot of reasons. :3
    (0)
    Last edited by Ashkendor; 07-28-2014 at 02:04 AM.

  3. #13
    Player
    Anova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    861
    Character
    Deneb Algiedi
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 70
    Don't misunderstand me. I like the new dungeons too, but some of the mechanics don't feel quite polished yet. They are experimenting and I feel like there's a lot to look forward to in the next content patch.
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player
    Zoeila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    274
    Character
    Justina Suntail
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    why not have more bosses like hydra where you want 2 tanks in order to split the damage instead of tank swapping.
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player
    Zaero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    212
    Character
    A'linhbo Taqah
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 60
    So.... people getting the "epic lootz" all of a sudden rely on that gear and solo tank to show off.

    Plus, tanking as PLD isn't really that glamorous. I prefer WAR tanking myself. But, PLD is for those that enjoy "flexing" and showing off.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player
    Kyana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    395
    Character
    Kyana Nekote
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by PurplePanther View Post
    ...I just think the options for PLD are very minimal in terms of 'excitement'.
    That's true.
    WAR can be very dynamic with its different rotations. Apply dmg debuff or refresh reduced dmg debuff? Do I have enough hate? How long till the next hard hit so Inner Beast is ready by then?
    There's alot more going on when playing WAR compared to PLD.
    1, 2, 3, Spirits, hmm which cooldown should I use now? CoS, 1, 2, 3, ah let me just use a Shield Bash to make something different. 1, 2, 3, what should I have for dinner today?


    Quote Originally Posted by Zoeila View Post
    why not have more bosses like hydra where you want 2 tanks in order to split the damage instead of tank swapping.
    I like that idea.
    Well, I like every idea which makes the life as PLD more interesting.

    I like how they designed tanking Leviathan.
    It would be nice to see more bosses which require the tanks to take care of different targets.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player Mjytresz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    94
    Character
    Casval Daikun
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial View Post
    So your idea is just a simple forced tank swap.
    Pretty boring considering this is already one of the most boring mechanics in fights for tanks anyway.
    Instead of "Oh I'm at three stacks provoke" It'll be "Oh I'm low fatigue, provoke"
    Genius.
    Pretty much this. From experience, forcing meta and mechanics are a bad thing.

    There was another game I played where tank-swapping was the only way to get through boss fights, either due to insta-kill mechanics or DoTs.
    Aside from that, dual-tanks was never really desired or necessary. The equipment in this game is ramping up in a way that's going to promote soloing/duoing soon.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player
    silvach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Poland, Warsaw
    Posts
    57
    Character
    Silvach Dakwhil
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Actually the duo-tanking is quite good idea when the dungeon is designed for duo tanking.

    One of the perfect examples is Garuda EX where OT have to tank one of the adds that garuda spawns, also maintain the DoT (from the plume) at 2 stacks on whoever it is and provoke it back to you or start with it on you. I can't imagine doing this solo-tankig.

    For better and harder dungeons (the ones that are doable in 2 tanks) they should add to trash mobs some big hitting one or one that can add debuffs which stacks with other trash mobs attacks. Like you are heading to a group of trash mobs, 5 of them are minor earth-type damage dealers and 2 of them are adding the debuff that multiplies the earth damage by 3 times. OT and MT have to know their roles and what to do to pull out 2 adds from group of 7 (it's not as simple as provoke on one, because the second still be doing the debuff). Ofc those debuff type monsters should be sleep-resistant.
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player
    KingOfAbyss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    996
    Character
    Abyss King
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaero View Post
    So.... people getting the "epic lootz" all of a sudden rely on that gear and solo tank to show off.

    Plus, tanking as PLD isn't really that glamorous. I prefer WAR tanking myself. But, PLD is for those that enjoy "flexing" and showing off.
    TL;DR: LOL'ed.

    'Tank' you, you made my day brighter.

    What is this thing about feeling god when playing any jobs, Tank-Healer-DPS-Whatever?

    I never felt compelled to brag about how cool-looking I am.

    I do Glamour for myself first; if I like it, until I see everyone on the server with the same glamour, I'll be happy.

    What's important in the game: Skills, and having fun (which should comes 1st). Glamour is when you are bored (no one is unique on an MMO, for long.)

    No matter what class/job you play, if you aren't having fun, in a game, you either do it wrong, or the DEVs.

    The skill part: you need to practice, to wipe, to learn from it and from your comrades if they try to help you in a decent way, not to put you on the defensive.

    It's all for your greater good, and the good of your party.

    Some people say there is a shortage of Tanks. I see plenty of them everywhere on Gilgamesh. To the point that in my ex-FC, we had to take turns as Tanks so that we could get some gear in Coil.

    The Shortage comes from 2 things:

    a) Tanks are fed up with people who lack skills the same than Healer and DPS, and I mean as well personal relation skills. They opt to play within their FC, a few PF mostly with friends from other FC they know well, and LS, which is wayyy better than PUGs. No rudeness, no problem, everyone's on the same page, and actually some chat goes around! Higher chances of getting that content done. In-cre-di-ble.

    Little story (yesterday night - Queued Titan EM DF - waited about 30 mins with an FC mate - finally got in - one Tank (it's been 2 months I've played - we wipe - says yup, something bad about my connection I lag so bad, have to reset my connection - Leaves >.< others that are killed - same thing, Lag again is blamed - well, we voted abandon, got into ST in 3 mins - done. Thank you PUGs)

    b) Hunts. Yup, it's all the rage these days, and with certainty. You will see less people in Dungeons and Trials than ever. Not only Tanks, but if you Hunt you'll see all the WHM are there too ^^

    So SE is trying to find ways to circumvent this, like SV last boss mechanics, and ST requiring only 3 Tanks.

    I say it's a good start. Just don't make the Role useless like certain fights where if you weren't there, it wouldn't change a thing. (except SV - love it to see everyone on the go ^^)

    Every role has it's place in this game, and if you don't like to play one: just don't play it and don't complain about the lack of it.

    OP - I don't like the idea - Over long fights, our fatigue comes from the lack of TP. There is plenty enough on us not to add more to it. Seems like other mentionned, perhaps a little break is required from Tanking. Then you can feel refreshed from your fatigue. And if you have to stop tanking to rest, when the other tank is dead, fell off can't revive, what are you supposed to do? Nope, I'm not for it.
    I just hope if Samurai comes or that Gun Tank job, that it will make things more fresh and fun to play again, perhaps getting more tanks overall.

    And then again - with a lvl cap, who knows if the PLD will get some cool DPS AoE Skill like Heaven's Judgment which will generate so much hate that Rage of Halone will be jealous. - with SE, you never know, and that's what I'm excited about ^^
    (0)
    Last edited by KingOfAbyss; 07-29-2014 at 01:43 AM.

  10. #20
    Player
    Ashkendor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    4,659
    Character
    Ashkendor Zahirr
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaero View Post
    Plus, tanking as PLD isn't really that glamorous. I prefer WAR tanking myself. But, PLD is for those that enjoy "flexing" and showing off.
    I don't really even get what you're trying to say here. I've seen just as many braggart WAR as PLD.
    (0)

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