Hard Mode {Found It}

[quantumsaint]

And people said Gath's thread served no purpose.

[Richard]

And people said Gath's thread served no purpose.

That's because it DIDN'T serve a purpose other than to advance the epeen that he so desperately needs to survive in life. Origamikitsune is offering his own thoughts on how to make the game more enjoyable for those who think its too easy, not saying "hey look what I did, I'm better than you, prove me wrong with a video or gtfo".

There are most definitely hard things to do in this game. We've seen Kaeko solo all the Top 5 NMs. Every mob in the game sans maybe the Lv.99 Qikiroon Mercs have been killed. People have leveled fishing not using bots or grade 10 waters. (lol)

But is it really hard? Or is it more of an endurance challenge or finding cheesy game mechanics to use? Throwing multiple lancers to stunlock mobs or throwing multiple thaumaturges to cheese mitigate huge amounts of damage doesn't necessarily make me feel like this game is a challenge and I shouldn't have to be forced to low man things to give me that rush. If I want to play with 8 of my friends and find something hard I should have that option just as much as someone who has 8 friends who wants a more casual and relaxed experience should have that option.

I hope SE takes this into account in the future so that both sides of the board can be catered to w/o having to sacrifice something in return to get what we want.

[Kaeko]

Every mob in the game sans maybe the Lv.99 Qikiroon Mercs have been killed.

Here are some videos of "interesting" solos if the OP is interested in player-made challenges. Including a solo of that Lv99 Qiqirn Mercenary someone mentioned. Solos were done by either myself or another player on my server Roi Beoulve.

Lv99 Qiqirn Mercenary by Lv50 GLA
Lv75 Widowmaker by Lv50 GLA
Lv70 Ogre by Lv50 GLA

Lv91 Rainbow Basilisk by Lv50 ARC

Uraeus by Lv50 THM
Great Buffalo by Lv50 THM
Elder Mosshorn by Lv50 THM
Dodore (Un-nerfed Version) by Lv50 THM
Haughtpox Bloatbilly (Un-nerfed version) by Lv50 THM
Tarbh Uisge by Lv50 THM

There are many aspects of the current XIV battle system which are "broken" and make these solos possible (some of them with relative ease). Just to list a few of the really big ones:
(1) Aegis Boon and Deflection being broken (Aegis Boon at least a glitch)
(2) dLVL-ignoring attacks (Bloodletter, DoTs, Barbs) being very strong on high level mobs
(3) The "return to territory" mechanic being extremely abusable

To add a couple which I'm sure you've seen from these group kills:
(4) The fact cures generate almost/no enmity.
(5) Twisting Vice being extremely overpowered as a TP-control strategy

Hopefully many of these mechanics will be changed (in as little as a week from now). I think it's fun to challenge yourself or you group, but as others have mentioned, there is little reward for exceling beyond maybe farming the NMs solo/low man for selling right now. And with all due respect to the players that posted the Lv87 Ogre video in the thread that got locked, there is no mob challenge that truly requires anything beyond 2, maybe 3 players in this game currently, although that shouldn't diminish their own sense of accomplishment.

[Rentahamster]

, there is no mob challenge that truly requires anything beyond 2, maybe 3 players in this game currently

Indeed. My LSes got bored with beating up high rank mobs ages ago, since they don't give any extra SP and drop worthless items (except for the goblins that drop gold dust).

This is why I really think that some kind of leaderboard or time trial system would go well with the achievements that they are planning to put in the game. Once everyone can see each others' scores and compete with each other, it adds incentive to go out and do things for glory, even if the item or EXP rewards are crap.

Additionally, as is the nature of time trials, it lets players compete against themselves as they try to beat their own best high scores as one of the great challenges in life is not only besting one's rivals, but also besting one's own self as well.

LINK: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ge-Competition

[AngryNixon]

Here are some videos of "interesting" solos if the OP is interested in player-made challenges. Including a solo of that Lv99 Qiqirn Mercenary someone mentioned. Solos were done by either myself or another player on my server Roi Beoulve.

Lv99 Qiqirn Mercenary by Lv50 GLA
Lv75 Widowmaker by Lv50 GLA
Lv70 Ogre by Lv50 GLA

Lv91 Rainbow Basilisk by Lv50 ARC

Uraeus by Lv50 THM
Great Buffalo by Lv50 THM
Elder Mosshorn by Lv50 THM
Dodore (Un-nerfed Version) by Lv50 THM
Haughtpox Bloatbilly (Un-nerfed version) by Lv50 THM
Tarbh Uisge by Lv50 THM

There are many aspects of the current XIV battle system which are "broken" and make these solos possible (some of them with relative ease). Just to list a few of the really big ones:
(1) Aegis Boon and Deflection being broken (Aegis Boon at least a glitch)
(2) dLVL-ignoring attacks (Bloodletter, DoTs, Barbs) being very strong on high level mobs
(3) The "return to territory" mechanic being extremely abusable

To add a couple which I'm sure you've seen from these group kills:
(4) The fact cures generate almost/no enmity.
(5) Twisting Vice being extremely overpowered as a TP-control strategy

Hopefully many of these mechanics will be changed (in as little as a week from now). I think it's fun to challenge yourself or you group, but as others have mentioned, there is little reward for exceling beyond maybe farming the NMs solo/low man for selling right now. And with all due respect to the players that posted the Lv87 Ogre video in the thread that got locked, there is no mob challenge that truly requires anything beyond 2, maybe 3 players in this game currently, although that shouldn't diminish their own sense of accomplishment.

With all due respect Kaeko, I disagree with your assertion that doing things legitimately is worthless and/or largely negated by the fact that nothing in this game "truly requires anything beyond 2, maybe 3 players" by virtue of the exploits you have so usefully assisted in bringing to light.

You have, I submit, incorrectly substituted the fact that you can currently cheat the system in order to succeed due to SE's many failings in the game mechanics department as the true "mark of accomplishment" with killing these various things traditionally. By traditionally I mean with a party without intentional use of exploits.

I fully agree with you on your points (2), (4) and (5) insofar as those exploits engage themselves passively whether you seek them out or not in every encounter you enter into and so diminish all our achievements universally. In other words, their universality levels the playing field and so makes their detrimental effect on the difficulty of any given achievement moot (because everybody who posts a video glorifying themselves is passively suffering from (2), (4) and also sometimes (5)). I should say this in no way diminishes their damaging effect on the game and their being fixed should still be high priority for SE. I share your hope of these mechanics being altered for the better.

Anyhow, I agree there are exploits that engage themselves without conscious action by players but saying "Look, I did this solo because I specifically targeted the failings in the game and exploited them to succeed, and therefore those who did not specifically target the failings to succeed and simply did it "as intended" or as close to that as possible haven't achieved anything" is somewhat skewed. For me that is akin to saying "You earned your money by working all day, I earned it by defrauding my insurance company without much effort, therefore people who work for their money haven't achieved anything". Yes that analogy is a stretch but it's the closest one I could think of.

Anyhow that's all.

P.S. Keiko keep up the good work bug testing their game for them. They need it.

P.P.S. Good on you OP for going out there with other people and trying new things.

[AreeyaJaidee]

With all due respect Kaeko, I disagree with your assertion that doing things legitimately is worthless and/or largely negated by the fact that nothing in this game "truly requires anything beyond 2, maybe 3 players" by virtue of the exploits you have so usefully assisted in bringing to light.

You have, I submit, incorrectly substituted the fact that you can currently cheat the system in order to succeed due to SE's many failings in the game mechanics department as the true "mark of accomplishment" with killing these various things traditionally. By traditionally I mean with a party without intentional use of exploits.

I fully agree with you on your points (2), (4) and (5) insofar as those exploits engage themselves passively whether you seek them out or not in every encounter you enter into and so diminish all our achievements universally. In other words, their universality levels the playing field and so makes their detrimental effect on the difficulty of any given achievement moot (because everybody who posts a video glorifying themselves is passively suffering from (2), (4) and also sometimes (5)). I should say this in no way diminishes their damaging effect on the game and their being fixed should still be high priority for SE. I share your hope of these mechanics being altered for the better.

Anyhow, I agree there are exploits that engage themselves without conscious action by players but saying "Look, I did this solo because I specifically targeted the failings in the game and exploited them to succeed, and therefore those who did not specifically target the failings to succeed and simply did it "as intended" or as close to that as possible haven't achieved anything" is somewhat skewed. For me that is akin to saying "You earned your money by working all day, I earned it by defrauding my insurance company without much effort, therefore people who work for their money haven't achieved anything". Yes that analogy is a stretch but it's the closest one I could think of.

Anyhow that's all.

P.S. Keiko keep up the good work bug testing their game for them. They need it.

P.P.S. Good on you OP for going out there with other people and trying new things.

Very well said Nixon. There will always be the age old predicament of a human being disregarding something as a valid concern because when said subject is brought to light it reveals their embarrassment in having avoided the more central issue: They are wrong in their actions.

This goes beyond MMOs and socially unacceptable internet pariahs.

I know it is also the rationale of the official forum's majority that if X person exudes pride in Y accomplishments, the Z players has to interceded and make a degrading remark in hopes of ascertaining some sort of "justice" to defend Z players own shortcomings. In short a epeen measuring contest ensues fought via the plethora of misinformation and skewed truths between the two parties when all the OP desired was some simple confirmation that his existence is in fact substantial to the community OR anyone at all.

Hard mode will always suffer the above mentioned plights. /sarcasm EVERYONE is individually ALWAYS better than the chap to his left or right.

I think the majority of us need to take a lesson and put aside these petty insults to each others inner humanity and focus on goal oriented positivity.

That being said: Hard Mode is a unique sentient being which requires more maturity when approached than most topics. Please don't degrade each other like some of the little school children in these forums that get so trolololol happy they can't keep themselves from spamming their ignorance like a disease for which their is no cure.

HARD MODE ENGAGE!

[Kaeko]

TL;DR version:
Agree to disagree

With all due respect Kaeko, I disagree with your assertion that doing things legitimately is worthless and/or largely negated by the fact that nothing in this game "truly requires anything beyond 2, maybe 3 players" by virtue of the exploits you have so usefully assisted in bringing to light.

You have, I submit, incorrectly substituted the fact that you can currently cheat the system in order to succeed due to SE's many failings in the game mechanics department as the true "mark of accomplishment" with killing these various things traditionally. By traditionally I mean with a party without intentional use of exploits.

I fully agree with you on your points (2), (4) and (5) insofar as those exploits engage themselves passively whether you seek them out or not in every encounter you enter into and so diminish all our achievements universally. In other words, their universality levels the playing field and so makes their detrimental effect on the difficulty of any given achievement moot (because everybody who posts a video glorifying themselves is passively suffering from (2), (4) and also sometimes (5)). I should say this in no way diminishes their damaging effect on the game and their being fixed should still be high priority for SE. I share your hope of these mechanics being altered for the better.

Anyhow, I agree there are exploits that engage themselves without conscious action by players but saying "Look, I did this solo because I specifically targeted the failings in the game and exploited them to succeed, and therefore those who did not specifically target the failings to succeed and simply did it "as intended" or as close to that as possible haven't achieved anything" is somewhat skewed. For me that is akin to saying "You earned your money by working all day, I earned it by defrauding my insurance company without much effort, therefore people who work for their money haven't achieved anything". Yes that analogy is a stretch but it's the closest one I could think of.

Anyhow that's all.

P.S. Keiko keep up the good work bug testing their game for them. They need it.

P.P.S. Good on you OP for going out there with other people and trying new things.

Let me know if I missed the main points of your argument, but you are saying that the difference between the videos I presented and the 8man group killing the ogre is essentially intent - that is I knowing sought to exploit the most broken aspects of the game whereas they only unintentionally did so (and therefore did so to a lesser extent). The analogy that what I did is akin to defrauding a bank and what they did is more legit (like a hard working everyman) is used.

I think I personally meet you about half way on this line of thought.

In disagreement with you, I feel that we all have different "standards" when it comes to legit ways to fighting something. I believe that whether you knowingly or unknowingly abuse some massively broken aspect of the game, you are still benefiting. To extend this line of thought, which aspects are truly "broken" and which are simply just strong, intentional mechanics of the game can be blurry at times (for instance I saw you did not consider shield mechanics "broken"). Because in some rarer situations, "exploits" are hard to distinguish from variants of normal gameplay, I just usually say screw it if you can do it without 3rd party tools or overclocking your computer then it's all the same to me.

In agreement with you and continuing, just because someone (in this case me) thinks all these videos are the same, and there's really no difference in terms of exploitation does not mean everyone shares my opinion. In fact, I would probably be in the minority and you the majority if we somehow did a straw-poll. When we get into the realm of player-created challenges like solos and these high level mob group videos (where the goals are set by players, not developers), every player/group is truly entitled to their own opinion and most importantly their own sense of accomplishment. So while I roll my eyes a bit when I see someone post a celebration-parade post about 8-manning a Lv87 ogre or a Lv90 Basilisk, I'm sure many others truly see it as a great accomplishment.

In summary, we do these player-created challenges for a sense of accomplishment. What we deem as valid challenges versus invalid challenges will definitely vary group to group, issue to issue. This should not diminish our personal sense of accomplishment when we meet our own goals. This is why I am always extremely upfront and precise when describing how I solo something. It allows the person reading it to personally judge "is this valid to me or not?" and they can then make their own decision as to the validity of the method.

[AngryNixon]

TL;DR version:
Agree to disagree



Let me know if I missed the main points of your argument, but you are saying that the difference between the videos I presented and the 8man group killing the ogre is essentially intent - that is I knowing sought to exploit the most broken aspects of the game whereas they only unintentionally did so (and therefore did so to a lesser extent). The analogy that what I did is akin to defrauding a bank and what they did is more legit (like a hard working everyman) is used.

I think I personally meet you about half way on this line of thought.

In disagreement with you, I feel that we all have different "standards" when it comes to legit ways to fighting something. I believe that whether you knowingly or unknowingly abuse some massively broken aspect of the game, you are still benefiting. To extend this line of thought, which aspects are truly "broken" and which are simply just strong, intentional mechanics of the game can be blurry at times (for instance I saw you did not consider shield mechanics "broken"). Because in some rarer situations, "exploits" are hard to distinguish from variants of normal gameplay, I just usually say screw it if you can do it without 3rd party tools or overclocking your computer then it's all the same to me.

In agreement with you and continuing, just because someone (in this case me) thinks all these videos are the same, and there's really no difference in terms of exploitation does not mean everyone shares my opinion. In fact, I would probably be in the minority and you the majority if we somehow did a straw-poll. When we get into the realm of player-created challenges like solos and these high level mob group videos (where the goals are set by players, not developers), every player/group is truly entitled to their own opinion and most importantly their own sense of accomplishment. So while I roll my eyes a bit when I see someone post a celebration-parade post about 8-manning a Lv87 ogre or a Lv90 Basilisk, I'm sure many others truly see it as a great accomplishment.

In summary, we do these player-created challenges for a sense of accomplishment. What we deem as valid challenges versus invalid challenges will definitely vary group to group, issue to issue. This should not diminish our personal sense of accomplishment when we meet our own goals. This is why I am always extremely upfront and precise when describing how I solo something. It allows the person reading it to personally judge "is this valid to me or not?" and they can then make their own decision as to the validity of the method.

Agree to disagree on some points indeed

There is an underlying extended logic to my original post but both our walls of text have been cordial and I found your counter-argument quite pleasant. So in the spirit of amity I shan't tire you with another wall of counter-arguments lol.