Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

[Worm]

He is right though, the fights in this game are terribly easy with the exception of t5 pre-nerf. Even brutal coil was being cleared the 1st week of it's release. This game's raiding scene in a joke in contrast to any other AAA out there.

Can't you check your ego for a second to help your arguments? I mean, whatever the game doesn't take 100+ wipes to down a boss, what a loss. Though if you're going to pooh pooh about how easy the content is then who cares if the rewards are trivialized?

[cryptic_angel]

Can't you check your ego for a second to help your arguments? I mean, whatever the game doesn't take 100+ wipes to down a boss, what a loss. Though if you're going to pooh pooh about how easy the content is then who cares if the rewards are trivialized?

You can't say in good faith that the difficulty of the raids in this game hold up against the difficulty of raids in other games. They just don't.

Did you not play 2.0? It is the exact same thing. People still raided when the allagan weapons were still i90 and not i95. I do not see why people are crying over this. The odd number patches (2.1 and 2.3) seemed to be aimed at gearing people up in preparation for the next even number patch (2.2 and 2.4).

It has been stated several times that in 2.0 there was a lack of interest in raiding because of myth gear. That was the reason SE buffed the ilvl of the allagan weapons, because the BCoB had no other incentives other than BiS and Vanity at the time.

Yep ilvl 100... 1 step below raid gear is terrible gear to run those ilvl 60 dungeons. I see your point

IKR? I guess maybe that 3 extra intellect upgrade from the ilvl100 choker to the ilvl 110 choker was just too much for raiders to have!

[Worm]

You can't say in good faith that the difficulty of the raids in this game hold up against the difficulty of raids in other games. They just don't.

Are you even reading? I'm saying you're whining about the raid content not being exclusionary enough while saying it's bad that raids are being deincentivized. Why's it matter if they pass out a piece or two from raids that people are probably mostly not running as a choice not as an aspect of actually being unable to do it. It's like you're so focused on massaging your ego you're just saying whatever. It's not so much about the game as it is you aggrandizing yourself on a forum.

Also if you think you're losing something by not having to wipe for weeks on HM Spine then by all means, WoW is always going to be there.

[cryptic_angel]

Are you even reading? I'm saying you're whining about the raid content not being exclusionary enough while saying it's bad that raids are being deincentivized. Why's it matter if they pass out a piece or two from raids that people are probably mostly not running as a choice not as an aspect of actually being unable to do it. It's like you're so focused on massaging your ego you're just saying whatever. It's not so much about the game as it is you aggrandizing yourself on a forum.

Also if you think you're losing something by not having to wipe for weeks on HM Spine then by all means, WoW is always going to be there.

I never said raids themselves should be exclusionary, you're putting words in my mouth. I think raids should be very accessible with the first few bosses being similar to CT difficulty and the last few bosses being harder than T9.

That's not what we are talking about here. We are not talking about raid accessibility. We are talking about incentives to raid.

Non-raiding players get new content every single patch. Raiders are getting four bosses every six months. Now the two groups are of course not mutually exclusive, but most raiders I know primarily play for raids. When raiders have less incentive to raid, you end up with an end game that looks like GW2. I loved GW2, but the end game for PvE was terrible. I don't want to see the end game raiding scene in ff14 flounder like it did in other games.

difference between the two is completely subjective. complaining about i110 seems spoiled when there's only one way to get i115.

Person A works 40 hours a week and feels entitled to a good paycheck.

Person B works half the time and wants 90% of the same pay for doing half of the same work.

It's not subjective, it is quantifiable and can be laid out in simple logical terms.

[Nel_Celestine]

I don't want to see the end game raiding scene in ff14 flounder like it did in other games.

So you're solution is kick non-raiders to the curb and deny them any sense of progression unless they raid?

[Worm]

I never said raids themselves should be exclusionary, you're putting words in my mouth. I think raids should be very accessible with the first few bosses being similar to CT difficulty and the last few bosses being harder than T9.

Uh so HM Spine wasn't exclusionary? Look bud, you can keep telling everyone what you meant while they poke more and more holes in what you're saying, I don't care. Though I don't know how you're going to beat the drum for WoW and it's raid content while sobbing about how easy 14 is and somehow NOT characterize that as a call for more exclusion.

If you think I'm putting words in your mouth then you must not know what you're saying.

[cryptic_angel]

Uh so HM Spine wasn't exclusionary? Look bud, you can keep telling everyone what you meant while they poke more and more holes in what you're saying, I don't care. Though I don't know how you're going to beat the drum forWoW and it's raid content while sobbing about how easy 14 is and somehow NOT characterize that as a call for more exclusion.

If you think I'm putting words in your mouth then you must not know what you're saying.

I made ONE post about difficulty and yet disregard the rest of what I have said. Sure, HC fights are exclusionary by nature of skill, raid composition, and resources. You can cherry pick your arguments all you like, it's plain as day to see that.

You can have both casual friendly bosses and exclusionary bosses within one raid. Look at icc 25 back from WotLK. The first wing was a loot pinata where the most casual of players could enter. The last boss of each wing after that was much more challenging with the LK being the most difficult fight. But please, keep going on about one post I made and disregard all the other points, it seems to be your strong suit.

If you don't care, stop replying then. Really simple.

I care about the raiding scene and what will keep bleeding edge raiders in this game. I don't care about friends and family groups that barely get T8 down one week from the third binding coil being released. I don't play with those people.

If you think ff14 is OMGWHATISTHIS difficult, great, good for you. I don't find it that difficult and your interpretations of what I say are just that, your interpretation.

So you're solution is kick non-raiders to the curb and deny them any sense of progression unless they raid?

Non-raiders have progression. They went from ilvl90 gear (myth gear) to ilvl100 gear (soldiery gear).

Current in this case meaning the systems of market that have existed for millions of years, so I guess "current" is a bad turn of phrase, yeah. Covetous human societies have existed for a long, long time. They were awful viewed as awful, poisonous things anathema to our survival, which is why we wrote books warning against them. Sadly, those beliefs were repurposed a long, long time ago.

Still, we have developed many societies that didn't rely on accumulation and greed as the main mechanism of human survival. We also like to conveniently forget about them or write them off as savages when our forefathers conquered them in the name of...well, having more land to "survive" with.

If you go back far enough, people coveted other people over signs of fertility such as big hips and large mammary glands.

[Zarzak]

You can have both casual friendly bosses and exclusionary bosses within one raid. Look at icc 25 back from WotLK. The first wing was a loot pinata where the most casual of players could enter. The last boss of each wing after that was much more challenging with the LK being the most difficult fight.

The MMO term that would sum this up nicely.

Gatekeeper mobs/events. Every MMO with half decent raiding has them in pretty much every expansion. The fight that makes even the best guilds fall flat on their face and is the gatekeeper between the low end raid guild friendly content and the content that is going to punish you every step of the way. Often being a bit harder than some of the fights to follow.

Case and point... The Rathe Council. Anyone who was around for that knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Don't you feel even slightly disingenuous calling EQ1 or EQ2 a 'subscription based model'. How does paying an extra 10 bucks for a second attack animation for your OP vampire race qualify as subscription in your mind? Also pretending ToR's issue was just raiding. Honestly, you can make your argument without these crazy untruths.

Uhh... Do you even play EQ? You can't even wear gear or gain anything past 1k AA (there are over 12k) without a sub. Their "silver membership" free shenanigans is a outright lie and no one is at level cap without a sub. That's like saying WoW is F2P because you can get level 20 without a sub.

I'll log on tonight and raid in EQ on my silver.. Oh wait I have 10k hp/mana because I can't wear my gear that puts me at 120k hp/mana. Yep totally F2P.

EQ2 follows a similar model. Limiting spells, AA, etc.

[Krr]

If you go back far enough, people coveted other people over signs of fertility such as big hips and large mammary glands.

Given that we kind of need those to reproduce and exist as a species, yes. It's quite a bit different from desiring internet swords or large piles of green paper or gold, things we don't require for survival but demand in excess anyway.