Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

[Tiggy]

Lets not pretend the the effort from hunts + solidery capping is equivocal to the time, effort, and resources you spent learning t6-t8. You can fool yourself and say that some how the two efforts are equivalent, but they are not.

The absurd post I made was to highlight what an idiotic notion it seems to be that it is fair when effort is not proportional to reward.

It doesn't need to be equivocal. Raiders aren't the only people who play this game, and you are not a king among men because you ran t6-t8. I'm not fooling myself of anything, but you apparently are if you think you are that important for running 3 bosses. I recognize that other people don't have time to raid and they don't deserve to have terrible gear forever. I also recognize that I put a lot of effort into learning these runs. The simple fact is I don't need their experience to be the same as mine to be wielding decent gear. I don't share your sense of entitlement. Deal with it.

[Krr]

He also seems to forget that when you're doing say 350 DPS that 10% is 35 more DPS. It's not insignificant.

I think the take-away here is that the people who care about 35 more DPS are probably the people in SCOB to begin with, and everyone else just wants something pug-friendly and relevant to do.

I don't see how it hurts the serious raiding community so badly that randos don't want to go to SCOB. It hurts semi-casual PUG raiders a lot, mind.

[Nel_Celestine]

Lets not pretend the the effort from hunts + solidery capping is equivocal to the time, effort, and resources you spent learning t6-t8. You can fool yourself and say that some how the two efforts are equivalent, but they are not.

The absurd post I made was to highlight what an idiotic notion it seems to be that it is fair when effort is not proportional to reward.

Raiders have had access and acquired both High Allagan and upgrade items for Soldiery for three months. If you really think that hunts is making people not raid perhaps you need to re-evaluate and look for another root of the problem. Maybe your raid group or others are raid fatigued? Maybe they want a break and try something else. Maybe it's only been a week and a day since the patch went live and they are doing new content for a change of pace. Trying for force non-raiders to raid is a losing battle. Trying to demand that non-raiders get no progression is financial suicide. If you are not content with non-raiding folk catching up with non-best in slot gear after three months of exclusive access then there is something wrong with you, not the game.

It doesn't need to be equivocal. Raiders aren't the only people who play this game, and you are not a king among men because you ran t6-t8. I'm not fooling myself of anything, but you apparently are if you think you are that important for running 3 bosses. I recognize that other people don't have time to raid and they don't deserve to have terrible gear forever. I also recognize that I put a lot of effort into learning these runs. The simple fact is I don't need their experience to be the same as mine to be wielding decent gear. I don't share your sense of entitlement. Deal with it.

This, a thousand times this.

I think the take-away here is that the people who care about 35 more DPS are probably the people in SCOB to begin with, and everyone else just wants something pug-friendly and relevant to do.

I don't see how it hurts the serious raiding community so badly that randos don't want to go to SCOB. It hurts semi-casual PUG raiders a lot, mind.

Exactly! If you are in a static for second coil, what does it matter where and when others acquire gear? Do your best with your group. If you aren't aiming for world first then it doesn't really matter and in the end even that won't matter for long either.

[JTribal]

It doesn't need to be equivocal. Raiders aren't the only people who play this game, and you are not a king among men because you ran t6-t8. I'm not fooling myself of anything, but you apparently are if you think you are that important for running 3 bosses. I recognize that other people don't have time to raid and they don't deserve to have terrible gear forever. I also recognize that I put a lot of effort into learning these runs. The simple fact is I don't need their experience to be the same as mine to be wielding decent gear. I don't share your sense of entitlement. Deal with it.

Tiggy, your response has earned you a proposal once the marriage system comes out.

[Isus]

my 2 cents - farming coils (original or 2nd coil) gives players options for gear, whether it's for ilevel or glamores. In 1.0 everyone eventually ended up in the same "uniform" for their job once they reached their max play potential. The same was true for 2.0 until the glamore system was released. I personally love the look of the BLM set from the original coils - just lacking the pants. Do I NEED ilvl 90 gear for my BLM, nope - I can get the soldiery gear or the ST gear no problem. Does that mean I'm gonna stop farming T4 till I get my pants, nope. Same goes for my weapon. I'm 1/2 way through the Animus books and have already started hoarding materia for my novus. that does not mean I don't want the WHM weapon from coil, or the bow while I work on getting my second atma. Besides, I'm lucky enough to have a great static to raid with, so even if I didn't need the gear/ want the gear, I'd still be raiding with my friends.

[cryptic_angel]

It doesn't need to be equivocal. Raiders aren't the only people who play this game, and you are not a king among men because you ran t6-t8. I'm not fooling myself of anything, but you apparently are if you think you are that important for running 3 bosses. I recognize that other people don't have time to raid and they don't deserve to have terrible gear forever. I also recognize that I put a lot of effortinto learning these runs. The simple fact is I don't need their experience to be the same as mine to be wielding decent gear. I don't share your sense of entitlement. Deal with it.

ilvl 100 gear with an ilvl 110 weapon is not horrible gear. The performance disparity between ilvl 100 with a novus and ilvl 110 bis with HA weapon is not large at all. You are exaggerating what non-raiders have available to them.

You make it seem like weathered solidery gear and novus weapons are practically AF1 gear. They are not.

It's fantastic that you don't care about other people and what they have. Great for you, Wish I was that way, but I am not. I like nice and rare things irl and in-game. It's humant nature to desire, covet, and want things that are rare, valuable, and exclusionary by nature. Get over it, human nature is not going to change.

[Edli]

Hello Kitty Island adventure doesn't count. Hell World of Warcraft.. the game that made pandering to the lowest common denominator mainstream is harder than FFXIV 2.0 raiding.

You really love showing off don't you? I bet you're going to come up with some old game that only you have played and we don't understand.

You still didn't answer my question, instead you throw some pointless internet meme at me.

[Sonofbaldo]

As much as I care about raiding too, I think this game is set on shooting itself in the foot when it comes to developing a great end game for high end gamers. I am sure I am not the only one to notice that less and less people are doing dungeon guides and streams of FF14.

The game will be fine, sure; however, you can see that the high end players who make content, such as youtube videos about dungeons, are starting to flee. Who can blame them really. This game offers little to the high end raider.

Personally you have nobody to blame but yourselves. The reason is gamer impatience and I'm not just talking about people who are going to take the path of least resistance to get the gear. People demand to make it to End Game too quickly. You fly through the meat and potatoes of the game in a month as a casual gamer, probably a week as a hardcore gamer, and then what's next? You want SE to pump out mass amounts of content because you demand a game that takes little time, effort, or skill to master in the first place.

To me the game should make you grind out levels and take 6 months for a casual gamer to reach End Game...if not longer. Those days are long over and SE has bowed to the WoW crowd for the sake of money which baffles me. At XI's height when it was a challenging game there were 3 times the subscriptions that XIV has and XIV has already peaked. So people fly through fluff content in a fluff world, run out of stuff to do and disappear because these easy to beat games lack staying power.

Unfortunately SE is so concerned with trying to please everyone at the same time that they simply made 2 versions of an inferior gaming experience. It doesnt take that many subscriptions to make an MMO financially stable. It's just a matter of profit. XI blows XIV out of the water and SE hardly even advertised XI. I mean old XI. Pre-Wings of the Goddess which signaled it's downfall as SE nerfed the entire world at the whim of WoW-like gamers.

XIV is a decent game for its generation. I will say it's better than anything that's out there that I know of. But in barely over a month I'm max level and hitting i90 in gear and completed the main story, which was lacking to begin with without all of the watching disjointed cut scenes because the majority of tanks and healers dont want to wait for people to watch a cut scene.

I've traded grinding in PTs and being forced to be social and function as a unit from my earliest days to sleeping through grinded fetch quests with overly-drawn out quests with little to no fanfare at the end to make it worth the while. When I'm done with that I get to repeatedly grind the same dungeon runs over and over and over where you basically annoy veterans of the game because you dont know how to properly function in a group expected to work together....If they pulled this in a console the game would be universally panned. See Dragon Age 2. But for some reason in an MMO it's not only accepted but preferred.

XI was the kind of game you played for 5-10 years. XIV is the kind of game you play for 1-2 at best. Subscriptions will die off like XI did after it was made too easy and you'll be left with a small community of die hards with absolutely no influx of new players. Older content will become null and void and SE will resort to just throwing shinies at you that will be just more of the same but enough to trick you into sticking it out another month or 2.

[Worm]

It's fantastic that you don't care about other people and what they have. Great for you, Wish I was that way, but I am not. I like nice and rare things irl and in-game. It's humant nature to desire, covet, and want things that are rare, valuable, and exclusionary by nature. Get over it, human nature is not going to change.

Uhg, can it Gordon Gecko.

I agree with rarity but we're talking about a change coming a content patch earlier and only effecting upgrade tokens. Which just don't hold the prestige of HA.

[Nel_Celestine]

I like nice and rare things irl and in-game. It's humant nature to desire, covet, and want things that are rare, valuable, and exclusionary by nature. Get over it, human nature is not going to change.

Then good sir/madam when would you suggest non-raiders are allowed to have any sense of progression for their characters? Once every six months? One a year? Once an expansion?

Who provided funding for you to have the unique, rare, valuable and exclusionary experiences you have had so far in second coil for the last three months? Was it just your static? Your whole FC? Perhaps only the raiding community? No, it was the entire player base that has been funding the game and thus, three months after the exclusionary content of second coil they are gearing up and can try tackling it with higher gear if they weren't confident enough before.