Morale and PvP Materias work in Frontline?

[Geologo]

I read in other Topics that Morale and PvP materias didn't work in frontline.

I think they say it because of this message in the Frontline DF:
"While synced, all Item stat are adjusted and materia bonuses are ignored."

I hope the SE for "Materia" mean the normal Materias, like Intelligence, Heavens Eye ecc... not the Coeurl's Eye materia I hope.

So my question is: "Really the Morale and the PvP materias will be ignroed in Frontline? If yes, SE will consider to make it work?"

And another little quest, the striking dummy of Wolve's Den ignore or consider the Morale stat?
If not, can you make them consider them in order to see how PvP gear can be more useful in pvp then normal High level gear?

Ty

[Vandril]

Yes, Morale is ignored in Frontlines. To my knowledge, all materia, even PvP materia, are ignored as well. SE has said that this was by design. I'm fairly sure it was in the patch notes, too. As such, I highly doubt they plan to change it. While these plans may change if enough people dislike it, many players don't dislike it, so I doubt it will get to that point.

No idea on the striking dummy. I would imagine that it ignores Morale, since it's not a player. I agree that it should take morale into account, if it doesn't already.

[Chiramu]

Yes, Morale is ignored in Frontlines. To my knowledge, all materia, even PvP materia, are ignored as well. SE has said that this was by design. I'm fairly sure it was in the patch notes, too. As such, I highly doubt they plan to change it. .

The patch notes say that while the level sync is in effect all Morale is ignored. So there is plans to remove the level sync in Frontlines, this will then mean Morale will be useful.

[Vandril]

The patch notes say that while the level sync is in effect all Morale is ignored. So there is plans to remove the level sync in Frontlines, this will then mean Morale will be useful.

When they said that Morale is ignored while the item level sync is active, I don't believe that they were trying to imply that the item level sync would be removed in the future or that Morale would suddenly work. Did SE say anything explicit about Morale and the item level sync being changed at a later date?

[Chiramu]

When they said that Morale is ignored while the item level sync is active, I don't believe that they were trying to imply that the item level sync would be removed in the future or that Morale would suddenly work. Did SE say anything explicit about Morale and the item level sync being changed at a later date?

The way they wrote it suggests (suggests!) that they have plans to remove ilvl sync, or make a Frontlines with no ilvl.

[Vandril]

The way they wrote it suggests (suggests!) that they have plans to remove ilvl sync, or make a Frontlines with no ilvl.

Personally, I hope that neither of those become reality. The former adds too large a wall of entry into PvP while the latter splits people into two queue groups, raising queue times. If they intend to change how Morale works (or, in this case, how it DOESN'T work) in Frontlines, I sincerely hope that they just make it count as another useful stat for your class that isn't already on that piece of gear, as suggested in another thread.

But, who can say for sure which way the wind will blow.

[Logo]

Personally, I hope that neither of those become reality. The former adds too large a wall of entry into PvP while the latter splits people into two queue groups, raising queue times. If they intend to change how Morale works (or, in this case, how it DOESN'T work) in Frontlines, I sincerely hope that they just make it count as another useful stat for your class that isn't already on that piece of gear, as suggested in another thread.

But, who can say for sure which way the wind will blow.

How is there a large wall?
you get 250-600 exp and 250-900 wolf marks a game of frontlines.
there is no challenge to getting pvp gear now.

[Vandril]

How is there a large wall?
you get 250-600 exp and 250-900 wolf marks a game of frontlines.
there is no challenge to getting pvp gear now.

I never said anything about the challenge of obtaining the gear. It's not even a mild secret how quickly and easily you can obtain the gear with the gains from Frontlines. That's not the wall I'm talking about. The wall I'm talking about is for the time that new player doesn't have said gear, while they're earning it at that admittedly rapid rate. During that time, they're at an extreme disadvantage in both Damage and Healing. Doubly so if they make Morale replace Defense/Magic Defense like they did in Wolves' Den.

Would it take them long to catch up on gear and have a level playing field? No. But would it be great fun for them to play Frontlines until they get that gear, being more or less completely useless in combat and getting slaughtered by everyone they see? Definitely not. That's where it becomes a wall. Many players do not want to do something they find unfun and frustrating for hours/a few days in order to gear up just enough to stand a chance. While people who already like PvP in MMOs or came here for the PvP would probably jump on the task without a second thought, new PvPers who want to try it out will only get a bad first impression and drop it immediately. Stats like this exist in other MMOs, and the effects of their hindrance as walls are obvious. I don't want to see that here, and would love FFXIV to become a shining example on "how to do it right".

It's unnecessary for that wall to entry to exist in such a drastic form when you can balance gear progression in PvP in much simpler and less harsh ways.

[Logo]

Then why have the gear?

Just to be clear you did say

The former adds too large a wall of entry into PvP

and now..

It's not even a mild secret how quickly and easily you can obtain the gear with the gains from Frontlines.

Honestly, you wouldn't start out boxing by boxing the champ, why do people expect to do that in pvp?
Also frontlines comes down to teamwork, which makes gear much less a factor.

[Vandril]

Then why have the gear?

For progression purposes. I don't think my point is coming across properly. I'm not saying that it's a wall that cannot be overcome with relative ease, and I'm not saying there should be no gear progression at all. Gear progression is not the problem, rather, Morale, in its current state, is. It completely replaces Defense and Magic Defense in Wolves' Den, and, if enabled for Frontlines, will do the same there. That means that new PvPers who don't yet have PvP gear will be entering with literally 0 Defense and Magic Defense. Zero. Zilch. Nada. That is far less Defense and Magic Defense than they have now. This means that enabling Morale would widen the gap between new PvPers and geared PvPers. The gap, as it is now, is fine. It does not need to be and should not be widened any further.

It's not a wall to entry because it stops entry altogether. Just like most walls, it can be scaled, and, in this case, with relative ease and speed. The problem lies in that, while you're scaling the wall, you will be completely useless in combat in Frontlines. It will not be a fun experience for at least your first 15 matches, and that will be the first experience people new to Frontlines will experience. It's nothing short of PvP hazing. It's unnecessary and will drive potential PvPers away due to ruined first impressions of this game's PvP.

Honestly, you wouldn't start out boxing by boxing the champ, why do people expect to do that in pvp?

This is a bit of a lopsided example. In a boxing match, both new and veteran contenders will have the same equipment. The only reason the veteran would likely win is due to more experience and skill at boxing. Another flaw with your example is that the new "boxers" (new PvPers) ARE starting out "boxing" (fighting) the "champs" (veteran PvPers). There's no queue that shuffles out all the champs for the sake of the new players.

I get what you're trying to say, though. New PvPers should not be able to contend with veteran PvPers, and they should not expect to, until they, too, are veteran PvPers. To some extent, I agree, if not just for the sake of gear progression. But this is also a game, which needs to be fun, and dying because of gear gap even if you're more generally skilled is not fun. There should be a gear gap, but it should be moderate, like it is now. It doesn't need something like Morale making it 5x worse.

Also frontlines comes down to teamwork, which makes gear much less a factor.

The same can be said about all group PvE content and all PvP content in any MMO, and yet gear is always a VERY big factor. If you want proof, play as you normally do in a good team while wearing no gear except your weapon. You'll quickly realize that you've become completely useless and that your entire team is less competent because of it. If that's not enough proof, you can also try to convince your entire team to go in naked and see what happens.

A team is only as good as the sum of its individual members plus their synergy. So, yes, while the fact that it's team-based does lower the dependency on gear just a bit, gear still amounts for a vast, vast majority of the competency of the team overall.