How did the community become this toxic?

[Jandor]

The more accessible a game is, the more entitled, easy-win people will be attracted to it.

The less accessible a game is, the more those types will be driven away due to the difficulty of obtaining items and maneuvering around the game's systems -- at the same time, high-level players in those games are more likely to be helpful as there is prestige in imparting their own discoveries and hard-earned knowledge on others.

But accessibility is considered the safest route for AAA developers as you can attract a larger audience with dumbed down systems and a lower skill threshold.

Thankfully, games like Demons/Dark Souls may be showing developers that challenge, reward, and discovery are more powerful engagement tools than scripted 'theme-park' experiences.

Eve Online seems to contradict that theory.

[Zantetsuken]

Eve Online seems to contradict that theory.

Eve Online's core engagement is (now) PVP. Then add real money transactions to the equation and you have a recipe for ultra-high toxicity. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who has played online PVP games.

Systems that enhance toxicity and arrogance

• Unforgiving, performance-based *youtube* fights (most ARR endgame)
• Strong PVP focus (EO)
• Real money shops (Buy to Win - EO)
• Anonymity/Unaccountability (Duty Finder)
• Clear Best-In-Slot items (iLvL)
• Guaranteed rewards with earning rates based on efficiency. (grinding tomes)

Systems that reduce toxicity and/or enhance player cooperation

• Arcane systems (obscure stats, etc)
• Secret locations, quests, etc.
• Dangerous environments
• Non-linear gear systems (experimentation)
• Rare gear, drops, encounters, etc.
• Incomparable skills and abilities (no clear Best-In-Slot)

There is a time factor on all of these things and developers must always stay ahead of the player curve in introducing new content. The second category requires a considerable amount of creativity and balance work, which is why it's easier for devs to go with the first.

I should also note, that due to the heavy dependency on Youtube videos, tutorials, and wikis; MMO developers need to look adapting more procedural, roguelike, and sandbox systems in order to keep their games fresh and interesting experiences for players.

[Jandor]

So FFXIV should be more like Eve Online (arcane systems, dangerous environments, non-linear gear, rare gear and no clear BiS) but without the PvP focus or PLEX...

You know what, could be right.

[Yukiko]

The origin of toxic community is when players are forced to do content, they dont like to do...
Mostly grinding is the source of that (farming stones to progress) and brickwall progress with lockout system...

If you like doing Primals, can you buy pvp gear?
If you like doing pvp, can you buy monsterhunt gear?
If you like doing coil, can you buy CT gear?

The time spent is always same, doing 30 Minutes Coil or CT or PvP or Primals, its ALWAYS 30 Minutes!
The problem is when in addition to frustration of progress players clearly see unbalancing and unfair loot between players (RNG)...

What FFXIV really needs is some sort of Sandbox element...

[Zantetsuken]

The origin of toxic comunnity is when players are forced to do content, they dont like to do...
Mostly grinding is the source of that (farming stones to progress) and brickwall progress with lockout system...

What FFXIV really needs is some sort of Sandbox element...

Agreed.

An easy way is to allow players to find ways to challenge themselves - in FFXI, I remember trying to find ways to solo different NMs with RDM in my downtime and farming specific gear to make that possible. It was lots of fun, and a sub-community of players emerged who would share strategies for beating a specific mob.

In ARR, there are guard-rails on everything... Though Eorzea has the illusion of an open world, the game is as much of a corridor-runner as FFXIII was.

[Dwill]

Agreed.

An easy way is to allow players to find ways to challenge themselves - in FFXI, I remember trying to find ways to solo different NMs with RDM in my downtime and farming specific gear to make that possible. It was lots of fun, and a sub-community of players emerged who would share strategies for beating a specific mob.

In ARR, there are guard-rails on everything... Though Eorzea has the illusion of an open world, the game is as much of a corridor-runner as FFXIII was.

That's a grossly over exaggerated statement.

[Kallera]

That's a grossly over exaggerated statement.

Name one area that is actually dangerous to go to on chocoback. Or one stronghold that isn't looking pathetically undermanned.

Or how about a mob that uses sleep for readying a bigger attack?

[Darki]

Name one area that is actually dangerous to go to on chocoback. Or one stronghold that isn't looking pathetically undermanned.

Or how about a mob that uses sleep for readying a bigger attack?

I was going to avoid this thread since it seems like one of those zombie threads that does nothing but incubate drama and arguments but I actually have to agree with this. Traveling from place to place is too easy. Would be nice if there was some kind of motivation for seeing how I could get from place to place safely myself instead of having it feel like a casual stroll. It would give the game more of an "adventure" feel.

[Karnyboy]

We got older and kids are playing. Immaturity and being anonymous with no repercussions breeds egotistical, self centered pricks.

[Dwill]

Name one area that is actually dangerous to go to on chocoback. Or one stronghold that isn't looking pathetically undermanned.

I actually agree with this part. I wish stronghold in FFXIV would look like something akin to the Yagudo stronghold in the early FFXI. But compairing to FFXIII is exaggerating it.

Or how about a mob that uses sleep for readying a bigger attack?

Morbol Menace from the Alexandrite Treasure Chest roots you before doing Bad Breath. Not saying that's hard but just answering your question.