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  1. #441
    Player
    Kuroyasha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    786
    Character
    Kuroyasha Tenshi
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    the buff is quite nice i must say on single target. Seeing some real nice crits. Of course I like the non crits as well xD
    (0)

  2. #442
    Player
    LetBloodline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    206
    Character
    Aenore Tristelle
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenji1134 View Post
    math
    You are ignoring the potency of fire3. Pre-patch Infinite flare was better then N3 only on 4+ target since otherwise overall potency was better. You need 6+ mobs to start to really loose dps compared to pre-patch
    (0)

  3. #443
    Player
    Uninstall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    170
    Character
    Yukairi Ran
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    You can no longer do the pre-patch rotatin reliably anymore.
    (0)

  4. #444
    Player
    LetBloodline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    206
    Character
    Aenore Tristelle
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Uninstall View Post
    You can no longer do the pre-patch rotatin reliably anymore.
    You just have to not spam fire3 button while waiting for mana recover but let pass half a second from mana tik
    (0)

  5. #445
    Player
    Uninstall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    170
    Character
    Yukairi Ran
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by LetBloodline View Post
    You just have to not spam fire3 button while waiting for mana recover but let pass half a second from mana tik
    I am having issues even with waiting a whole second about half the times. This clunkiness makes me almost want to go back to using Blizzard spells.
    (0)

  6. #446
    Player
    O-Deka-K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    103
    Character
    Lalani Ravenblade
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenji1134 View Post
    So lets see, looking at just aoe potency.
    N = 0, 260*1.8 every 12s = 39 pps
    N = 1, (260+100)*1.8, and this will take 15s due to F3 and ticks = 43.2 pps
    N = 2, (260+100+100)*1.8 over 18s = 46 pps
    I haven't gotten a chance to try it out yet, but unless they've changed something, N = 1 should take 12s and N = 2 should take 15s. This translates to an AoE potency of 55.2 PPS per target, which is about 94% of the PPS of the Flare rotation. N = 3 would be 56 PPS per target (95%).

    I still have to try it to confirm though.

    Side note: N = 0 is limited to 12s by the cooldown of Transpose, so it's correct.
    (0)

  7. #447
    Player
    O-Deka-K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    103
    Character
    Lalani Ravenblade
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    They changed something. I only tried it a little bit, but I think UI1 and UI2 act like UI3 now. That is, when casting Fire 3, the UI1/2 buff gets removed shortly before it finishes casting, and then AF3 is applied after it hits.

    It seems that if you start casting Fire 3 right when you get a mana tick after Transpose (casting time 3.5s), the UI1 buff is removed before you get the next tick, so you won't be able to cast Fire 2 before doing Flare. To alleviate this, you can wait for half a second before casting Fire 3. However, I think this causes you to miss a mana tick, so the rotation is extended by 3s. This would make Kenji's numbers correct.

    More testing is necessary.

    We may need to revisit the 2.0 AoE rotation: B2 - B2 - F3 - F2 spam - Flare - Transpose
    (0)

  8. #448
    Player
    LetBloodline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    206
    Character
    Aenore Tristelle
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by O-Deka-K View Post
    They changed something. I only tried it a little bit, but I think UI1 and UI2 act like UI3 now. That is, when casting Fire 3, the UI1/2 buff gets removed shortly before it finishes casting, and then AF3 is applied after it hits.

    It seems that if you start casting Fire 3 right when you get a mana tick after Transpose (casting time 3.5s), the UI1 buff is removed before you get the next tick, so you won't be able to cast Fire 2 before doing Flare. To alleviate this, you can wait for half a second before casting Fire 3. However, I think this causes you to miss a mana tick, so the rotation is extended by 3s. This would make Kenji's numbers correct.

    More testing is necessary.

    We may need to revisit the 2.0 AoE rotation: B2 - B2 - F3 - F2 spam - Flare - Transpose
    You don't want full mana. You want only 2 mana tiks that means be able to cast fire 2 fire 2 flare. You must have a SS so high that fire 3 cast time is less then 3s before having issues with this rotation and the "issue" is wait 0.1 sec if your fire3 cast time is of 2.9
    (0)

  9. #449
    Player
    O-Deka-K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    103
    Character
    Lalani Ravenblade
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by LetBloodline View Post
    You don't want full mana. You want only 2 mana tiks that means be able to cast fire 2 fire 2 flare. You must have a SS so high that fire 3 cast time is less then 3s before having issues with this rotation and the "issue" is wait 0.1 sec if your fire3 cast time is of 2.9
    I agree that Spell Speed may be a factor. However, according to PuroStrider's spreadsheet, you'd need 686 spell speed in order to reduce the cast time of Fire3 to 3 seconds. I only have 440.

    In 2.0, UI1, UI2, UI3 all worked the same: UI was switched to AF3 when Fire3/Flare hit.

    In 2.1, UI3 was changed so that UI3 was removed shortly before Fire3/Flare hit and AF3 was applied after, leaving a small window where you have no buff. However, it was discovered that they didn't change UI1 and UI2, so the double-Flare was modified to work under UI1.

    In 2.3 now, they specifically said that they changed UI1 and UI2, so I think that they just applied the same change as they did with UI3. I haven't been watching my buffs carefully enough to confirm this though. I'm going to do some testing this weekend.
    (0)

  10. #450
    Player
    Adamantium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    57
    Character
    Adamant Ackerman
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by O-Deka-K View Post
    In 2.3 now, they specifically said that they changed UI1 and UI2, so I think that they just applied the same change as they did with UI3. I haven't been watching my buffs carefully enough to confirm this though. I'm going to do some testing this weekend.
    You're right in your assumption. I tested it as soon as patch day hit because I figured that's the change they would have applied.
    (0)

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