You have enough casual/fluff content now, how about that endgame progression SEnix?

[TeganLaron]

savage coil i see no incentive whatsoever to run.

And there we have the real opinion of 99% of the complainers on here. You don't want a challenge, you don't want much harder content, something that requires an incredible amount of skill and dedication. Nope, you want more shiny shinies!

If there's no shiny gear, I'm not doing it! Wahhh! Well then you only have yourself to blame for being bored.

[Exstal]

Let's be real, people don't raid for a challenge.

[Welsper59]

I agree with you that the greater goal is important but let's be honest, the content disparity as of 2.3 is greatly in favor of the casual player base and not by a little. End game raiders have 1 end game instance to do which is the SCoB. Syrcus Tower isn't really raiding content seeing as to how it can easily be cleared in under and hour with a full pug group and any decent PF group can clear all the extremes extremely quick, one can't really consider that as end game raiding either.

Raiders are just asking for a little more progression to do, not near the same amount of content that casual seems to get.

You're very right about 2.3 favoring the casual base. The thing is... why would you have expected otherwise? It's not unusual for this game. Pointing that out, is like pointing out that the forums have a character limit in posting. It's just something we know and have come to expect. In fact, there's never been any evidence from it's patch history that would suggest 2.3, where the attraction is ST/CT2 (as far as raids are concerned), was going to cater in a large/meaningful way to the endgame raiding crowd. This is literally the way this game does its content and has done so since it launched almost a year ago.

The philosophy behind FFXIV is not necessarily to divide the player base, but rather to accept both sides as the same. The only way to do this is to create a game that offers content that all can enjoy. Obviously people who want ONLY hardcore raids will get the short end of the stick, but that's how this game works. After spending a bit of time on it, and seeing patch history, there's no reason why someone should believe otherwise. A LOT of the content that attracts people to this game involves activities that don't require scheduling a raid time.

A lot of it just deals with feeling enjoyment from the little things. And that's the important thing that a lot of people don't understand. The little things... simple enjoyment. Raiders can keep asking for more endgame, but as I said, you're just heading for that little feeling called "disappointment". This game is not developed under the mindset of being absolutely sure to provide new max endgame content at every turn. Raiders that want this will get it... at the designated point in time. Is it possible that something meaningful for absolute endgame be introduced outside of a Coil patch? Of course... but don't expect it to happen on every patch. It takes time to do these things, and that time would much preferably be spent on providing things for everyone to enjoy, rather than just a very small crowd. They have a set schedule as to when they'll cater to the endgame, but they will never forsake the casual content. Afterall, only so much can be done in so short of time.

[Edli]

And there we have the real opinion of 99% of the complainers on here. You don't want a challenge, you don't want much harder content, something that requires an incredible amount of skill and dedication. Nope, you want more shiny shinies!

If there's no shiny gear, I'm not doing it! Wahhh! Well then you only have yourself to blame for being bored.

Agree. If you need a carrot to play the game that only means you don't really like the game. Savage coil's reward is its own challenge. A challenge that you have to overcome through skill, that's how games have been since their inception. Carrots were added only to content that players didn't want to do to force them to do it.

[Kinseykinz]

And there we have the real opinion of 99% of the complainers on here. You don't want a challenge, you don't want much harder content, something that requires an incredible amount of skill and dedication. Nope, you want more shiny shinies!

If there's no shiny gear, I'm not doing it! Wahhh! Well then you only have yourself to blame for being bored.

the irony: this patch has lots of new shiny gear to be had...it's just obtainable now by more than an elite few.



But anyway. Again, those sad that this patch didn't offer more top-tier endgame content:

1. SE was very clear months ago that content was every-other patch hardcore/mainstream. This is a mainstream patch. It was never supposed to have much for you. The very fact you even got Savage Coil was a bonus.

2. Savage Coil. They are point blank testing you. SE wants to see:
-If people can clear it
-If people choose it over normal coil
-How popular it is
If enough people are interested in this mode, and weekly challenge it and win it, SE will likely consider making content harder. And depending on popularity, they would add more variety of content in this difficulty branch. So...if you want 'more challenge' and more variety of challenge, then it would behoove you to start grinding the Savage Mode of coil instead of normal.

3. Gear. Why do the supposed 'elite' care so much about BiS? I mean okay I know why (so you can push things/be more awesome/see bigger numbers etc)...but the reality is, once you have BiS you actually made all the content easier than it would be for the lesser geared 'mainstream' gamers around you. This means, technically, they need to play better to achieve the same victories as you... Furthermore, the BC2 gear (and Unweathered) mix people have at the top is overkill for any current content in game. There is nothing in game atm (even T9) you Need all that gear for. So for those of you 'new shinies' driven, I think you are missing the forest for the trees. Enjoying the weekly raid w/ friends should be why you do BC2....the gear should be a happy accident. Once this gear actually would be truely useful to move on into the next tier of content, if this previous patch was any indication, the weekly restrictions will be removed and you can farm the crap out of BC2....so again, really once you beat it, you don't even need to farm it now if you don't want/ think it's lame. SE will remove the lockout, and you can farm it all in a matter of days if you so please. So if gearing up is your only reason for doing coil weekly, and otherwise you wouldn't play....don't play for a couple months. Come back when coil's unlocked and grab everything you need in 1-2 days of quick farming.

4. Time/attention/focus. Many 'toptier' gamers run out of stuff to do because they simply skip/ignore a lot of content (for various reasons). So by the time a new patch comes along, you're ready for new content....but most of the playerbase hasn't even unlocked the content you burned. But, if all you consume is one specific type of content in this game, you WILL outpace development on that content. It doesn't matter what the content is, if you only invest in one aspect of the game, you will run out of things to do. (I have a crafter friend that ONLY crafts....he still burns through his crafting/gathering content in patches before the next patch...yes, crafting and when he does so, we're likely not to see him much again until the next patch)

5. Wrong Game. This game simply isn't focused on pumping out content that is aimed at the type of gamer interested in high end raiding. They offer 'cutting edge content' to the top tier in much the same way they offer PvP content to folk who enjoy that, and housing to folk who enjoy that. The focus of the game is quests revolving around the main storyline. Even the EX primals are considered 'extra' and 'higher end'

So while you have every right to ask for a more varied 'top-tier', you need to also consider the environment and game you're asking for it in.

-Unless a fair number of people challenge and seem interested in Savage Mode, SE will see little reason to continue developing said content.
-Unless a fair number of people start clearing BC2 every week, and blowing more quickly though patch content in general....the ave difficulty level of most content is unlikely to change.
-Unless the 'easier' and more casual content is either ignored, or highly complained about, SE will continue to put the bulk of their resources into this content. (not just because it's where their bread is buttered, but because it's what the playerbase is interested in).

Really, this is going to remain a problem...in part, because BC existed before CT. If it had been the other way, then patches would have seemed more linear and less hop-scotch.

CT 80>BC1 90>CT2>100 BC2>110/115.

But the sad thing is, if they would have done the patches with CT starting at 2.0, and BC only being introduced in 2.1, then the 'top-tier' would feel more busy because at least on the 'soft' patches, you'd have gear upgrades to chase and CT/ST would seem more viable. (would also give you two types of raids) But because this wasn't the order...even though the content is there, since CT/ST gear was never seen as an upgrade+ unable to do as a full FC alliance, the top tier isn't very interested in this content.

[Dwill]

And there we have the real opinion of 99% of the complainers on here. You don't want a challenge, you don't want much harder content, something that requires an incredible amount of skill and dedication. Nope, you want more shiny shinies!

If there's no shiny gear, I'm not doing it! Wahhh! Well then you only have yourself to blame for being bored.

Sweeping generalization. The actual irony of that statement is through the roof. Read that again and see just how much of a hypocritical statement this is.

Let's be real, people don't raid for a challenge.

You don't raid for a challenge, plenty of others do.

Agree. If you need a carrot to play the game that only means you don't really like the game. Savage coil's reward is its own challenge. A challenge that you have to overcome through skill, that's how games have been since their inception. Carrots were added only to content that players didn't want to do to force them to do it.

Again, even more sweeping generalizations and illogical assumptions. If you truly believe that, maybe Square Enix should remove all the carrots the casual got this patch because you know, it's all about fun and the journey and not the rewards, right ?

You're very right about 2.3 favoring the casual base. The thing is... why would you have expected otherwise? It's not unusual for this game. Pointing that out, is like pointing out that the forums have a character limit in posting. It's just something we know and have come to expect. In fact, there's never been any evidence from it's patch history that would suggest 2.3, where the attraction is ST/CT2 (as far as raids are concerned), was going to cater in a large/meaningful way to the endgame raiding crowd. This is literally the way this game does its content and has done so since it launched almost a year ago.

The philosophy behind FFXIV is not necessarily to divide the player base, but rather to accept both sides as the same. The only way to do this is to create a game that offers content that all can enjoy. Obviously people who want ONLY hardcore raids will get the short end of the stick, but that's how this game works. After spending a bit of time on it, and seeing patch history, there's no reason why someone should believe otherwise. A LOT of the content that attracts people to this game involves activities that don't require scheduling a raid time.

A lot of it just deals with feeling enjoyment from the little things. And that's the important thing that a lot of people don't understand. The little things... simple enjoyment. Raiders can keep asking for more endgame, but as I said, you're just heading for that little feeling called "disappointment". This game is not developed under the mindset of being absolutely sure to provide new max endgame content at every turn. Raiders that want this will get it... at the designated point in time. Is it possible that something meaningful for absolute endgame be introduced outside of a Coil patch? Of course... but don't expect it to happen on every patch. It takes time to do these things, and that time would much preferably be spent on providing things for everyone to enjoy, rather than just a very small crowd. They have a set schedule as to when they'll cater to the endgame, but they will never forsake the casual content. Afterall, only so much can be done in so short of time.

First of all, thanks for actually being one of the only person that actually provide arguments to their point of views.

Secondly, I agree with you and I personally enjoy a lot of the content this game as to offer. The thing is that end game raiding scene isn't asking for a raid every patch, it's just asking to receive more than 1 challenging encounter every 6 months. The only real challenging content this game has received has been the Savage Coil, the rest has been cleared in a matter of days after release by quite a few people. As it stands right now, people have about 2-3 hours of raiding a week, thhat'S not even a tenth of what casual can do within a week.

[Fendred]

Casual, fluff content is good. People can actually form a consistent, inclusive community around that kind of content. The harder end game stuff tends to drive huge wedges into the community. I used to raid stuff hardcore (or at least at the upper edge of "mainstream" gamers), but found it creates a lot of false hopes when it comes to making progress.

In response to above, 2-3 hours is only a tenth of what a casual can do in a week? You're saying that people who have busy schedules can allocate 20-30 hours of their time per week to playing this? I'm willing to say that if someone dedicated all their time to raiding (including necessary grind for repair money), they might be able to pull 10 hours a week, but that would be it.

[AttacKat]

Asking for competitive content and leveling every class are two different things. Good raid groups are usually quality over quantity when it comes to time investment and end up raiding less than the casual player overall.

You just contradicted yourself in your own statement.

Which would you rather have as your stat group?

Group 1: 8-10 players of iL90+ players that can only play 1 class, which seems to be most of the players that rushes to endgame. (quanity)
Group 2: 8-10 players who can do be at least 4+ classes, at say iL70+, and building up their gears up to iL90. (cross class leveling, quality)

Which group is a more effective group? IMHO group 2.

jc

[Felis]

――The third major patch, Patch 2.3, was released on July 8th. Based on impressions, it appears as if Patch 2.2 was catered to the hardcore users, while 2.3 is designed for the casual players. Was this deliberate?

To a certain extent, yes. Just as we have continued to implement the "Echo" in our patches, not everything is always focused on the latest end-game. But whenever the maximum item level is raised in a patch, we do need to include powerful items and the appropriately-difficult contents to match. And in the following patch, we'll want to fill in the power gap created by this increase with a variety of fun contents, such as what we did in 2.3. That is the basic patch cycle with FFXIV.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...d-future-plans

In short, OP, wait for 2.4

[Worm]

I'd really like to hear how many wipes people want their progression behind. Do people really want content like Heroic Spine of Deathwing in this game? Hopefully Brutal Modes will be that level but it's obvious why the majority of raid content ISN'T that way.