I really don't want to moan about undercutting but....

[Karilyn]

Karilyn your iron ingot math part example ignores one thing. You can auto synth, getting EXPs for each synth, while you are AFK. 12 gil for several hundred EXPs isn't a bad deal at ore.... all.

Excellent point. I definitely was doing at at lower level crafts. After around level 25-30 or so, I just sorta, set up a macro, positioned the "Synthesis" directly above the macro on my hotbar, and clicked it every 30 seconds or so, and used the time to catch up on reading psychiatric medical journals, which I was going to do either way. Multi-tasking yo. If I set it up correctly, I'll still get the quality EXP bonus, without dividing my attention. Doing quick-synth and having to set it back up again every 99 synths I found to be a bit more distracting, as it would take me entirely out of my reading to set it up again (correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, 1 quicksynth takes about 3 seconds, which means a stack of 99 means I have to stop reading every 5 minutes to set it up again, which is too frequent a distraction for my tastes). Potentially useful for any students studying. Or not.

Then when I'm done reading, I just dump all the HQ mats into a guildleves, and craft up some HQ items with the NQ items and sell those.

Just like, for a Mythril Ingot, I'm looking at 2571 EXP for quick synth (with rested bonus), vs 7047 for a macro. Admittedly the macro takes about 10 times longer for 3x the exp, so it's about 1/3rd the exp-per-hour compared to just quicksything. But considering that 99 Mythril Ingots would cost about 3500*3+6500 = 17000g to craft, and I'd have to craft three times as many to get the same amount of EXP, it still comes out in my favor somewhat (Of course I could sell the Mythril Ingots for about 13000g per stack, meaning that if I only needed 99 Ingots, and just was quicksynthing for the same EXP, I'm only losing 8000g to get the same EXP in about 1/3rd the time if I sell the extra two stacks of 99 Ingots, which is a very reasonable and fair price). That being said, if I wanted to have to pay attention to my screen, a HQ Mythril Ingot guildleve would give a total of 86388+ ~11000EXP per craft = 97000 EXP per HQ ingot crafted. Which admittedly is slightly guildleve inefficiant, but insanely time-efficient compared to triple-turn-ins if you aren't suffering for a shortage of leves.

The best crafting/selling/leve choice is largely all situational depending on your degree of AFKness, and your desire for material, time, or leve allowance efficiency.

I like how the rude-but-true marketmongers almost make my eyes bleed with all that edge.

My apologies, I didn't mean to come off as rude. All dat edge is mostly me just doing it for fun. I find the optimization to be engaging and exciting; I'm quite well aware that most people don't draw the same level of enjoyment from systematizing. Ultimately I encourage people to play the way they find most fun as opposed to following the techniques of others to get a competitive edge. It's just a game, not the Olympics. My post was ultimately about curing misconceptions, not prescribing a correct way to play.

After all, just writing these posts on the forum cuts into my gil per hour, but it doesn't really matter because I find doing the analytical writeups to be fun!

[Emblemelite]

Anytime someone undercuts me by 1-5gil , I cut their price in half, cause yolo!!!

[LineageRazor]

It's because of Crystal Tower. The demand for Vanya has dropped considerably.

I'm actually kind of surprised by this. For Hands, Feet, and Legs, it makes sense - but considering that Crystal Tower is the next step up from Darklight, I would suspect there's a huge market for Body and Head. A mage with Darklight runs CT, and wins body or head - suddenly, they have an empty head or body slot they need to fill, and who knows how many weeks it will be until they fill it via CT? The obvious answer is Vanya.

My sister, who plays a BLM, is dealing with this very problem: Had Darklight Cowl of Casting, got Crimson Circlet and is now trying to save up the gil to buy a Vanya Robe of Casting.

[Niota]

It's the result of a free market. Do I want to ring the neck of every person who crafts 10+ of the same item and then undercuts by more than 15% ? Yes. That just means you find something else to craft until the next retard crashes in on your market.

[Wulfyn]

As an example:
What I like is Player A wants an Aldgoat minion, Player B is capable of making it. Player A sells the esquiste button for 50k. Aldgoat minions on MB sell for say 45k. Player A does not want to pay more than 45k or even close to it. What?? That is some of the dumbest logic I have been seeing lately besides the undercutting of NQ's to sell 1 HQ. I am gaining the habit of sometimes picking up low ball HQ's and just relisting them for profit.

What I don't like is when players who don't want to craft or gather or both, complain about the prices of items others craft and gather. If you don't gather then don't complain. If you don't craft then don't complain.

[Mychael]

Actually, if the lowest price of an item is 9999, and there's a couple at 10,000....I'll always buy one of the 10,000 ones...

I don't understand why you would choose to spend more money than necessary. If it's about principal, I'm pretty sure no one is getting the point and just cares about their gil.

It's not about principal, it's about tax. Smart buyers look for that--if it's not undercut by the tax amount (and you're not in the right city) you're spending less money.

The fact is, these people are not selling the items less than cost. At least, not THEIR cost. They farm tomes rather than buy philo mats.

This is why some people should be glad that this is a virtual economy and not real-life money. If you're farming mats that sell for 36k (or buying them in bulk for 30k), you're better off selling them at 36k than selling a Vanya robe at 36k (even if it's just crystals, etc.), and you'll probably sell them faster.

Moreover, there's lost profit in not selling a Vanya Robe for 47k--no one is looking at that saying, "This robe isn't worth 47k!" They would have bought the lowest-price item regardless. Selling items at a hugely discounted price, contrary to common belief, does NOT make your items sell faster. If someone's going buy XXX, they'll buy the cheapest XXX, regardless of whether that XXX is 5% cheaper or 50% cheaper. You just cheated yourself out of profit. The alternative (tombstone farming) is a time investment. For some people there will be a breaking point where it's not "worth" spending some amount of gil when they could run a couple dungeons, but price would lower over time if nothing was selling. However, the issue here isn't that items are so outrageously priced that people won't buy them--it's just that people think someone will by their crap faster at half-price, when they won't.

[Aurelie]

I have been selling a lot of things on the markets for a long time. When I first started selling, I would set my price the same as the lowest listed price for that item. I still do that for people that I see are listing things at at the same price I am. It's simple courtesy. Unfortunately most people are determined to try to cut everyone else out, and I don't have a problem undercutting those people every time.

[Aurelie]

The thing that really makes me mad is when a person who has never sold a particular item before comes along and tries to cut me out of the market for something I have been selling for months by listing 20 of the same item and then continually undercutting me by 1000 at a time for an item that doesn't sell for over 10k to start with. They keep undercutting, and they get the items so low in price that you are making little or no profit, and it screws up the market for everyone. They think by doing that, that I won't want to lose money and it will drive me off, then they can hike the price. I am not that easily discouraged. I have plenty of gil to burn, and I will not be run off. If I lose money on something to teach them a lesson, so be it. Fair is fair.

[Ravno]

I undercut by 1 gil. To get the spot, not to crash the market.
If someone undercut me, i will undercut him for the same amount he did.
If i loose some money on the process, so be it.

[EricCartmenez]

I undercut only if I have a lot less to sell of a particular item. For example, the going price of an item might be 500 gil and the smallest QTY is 10 and I only have 2. I might sell for 495 for that person looking for a one-time purchase. If they need more than my 2, they'll buy from the next one up. I noticed that some people don't pay attention to HQ. They will sell items for normal quality prices while the HQ might be several times the price. Then there's the person who takes the recommendation "Item sells for X gil". Next thing you know, there's a 1,000 gil item on sale for 10 gil. Does the AI not check pricing? Anyway, so that definitely affects the market. Of course, I'm sure there are those who scoop those low priced items up an sell them quickly at a much higher cost.