Gap between MNK and DRG dps widening

[Warlyx]

False. A well played monk does much more damage than a equally played dragoon. The difference is so great a monk + bard > drg + bard.

here u cant blame everything on monk dps , if bard did more dps , the piercing debuff from drg will be more noticiable and maybe drg + brd > mnk + brd

[Craiger]

http://sim.ffxivguild.net/

Yeah sure insane dps difference. Seriously #learntotakeiteasy

Even if that simulation is correct, my point that I made earlier still stands... SMN shouldn't be on par with DRG when it comes to single target DPS. That's just wrong, taking into consideration their mobility, utility and cleave damage (which is very useful in some fights).

I would like a change of Disembowel, since it makes no sense balancing a job based on a dmg buff for one other job (BRD). That won't help in dungeons or other content where you might not have a BRD, I much rather have an increase in DRG's own DPS... DRG doesn't bring more to the fight than MNK's do (in fact Mantra is 4 times better on MNK), so I don't see why they need to be ahead by that much at least. MNK should be a couple of points ahead of DRG, since some fights makes it impossible to keep up the GL, and DRG's is a little more mobile, but it shouldn't be 10%+, more like 5%. How hard a job is to play is irrelevant. It should be balanced based on utility and mobility. SMN has both gread utility and mobility, while BLM doesn't have much of either, but with their infinite mana and awesome aoe burst (can be useful), they still should be on par with SMN.

MNK > (-5%) DRG > (-7%) SMN/BLM. Haven't really been able to determine what I think BRD should have

[silentwindfr]

@craiger: you remember it's a mmorpg, right? your goal in team it's to help each other... not be the best alone in your corner, it's not call of duty!

i see people complain because dragoon can't beat the monk in dps, i feel it's not true, but well... indeed your monk outshine your dragoon in T8, but it's that the case in other fight?
i have seen people say monk is easy at play.... *cough* really? why we do have soo many bad monk around? it's because this class need to be well played all the time! indeed you can miss your position but the loose of dps hurt badly!

anyway, monk ask more jobs for maintain him "amazing dps" than dragoon... then it's natural that monk have some fight where he is the best!

[Craiger]

@craiger: you remember it's a mmorpg, right? your goal in team it's to help each other... not be the best alone in your corner, it's not call of duty!

i see people complain because dragoon can't beat the monk in dps, i feel it's not true, but well... indeed your monk outshine your dragoon in T8, but it's that the case in other fight?
i have seen people say monk is easy at play.... *cough* really? why we do have soo many bad monk around? it's because this class need to be well played all the time! indeed you can miss your position but the loose of dps hurt badly!

anyway, monk ask more jobs for maintain him "amazing dps" than dragoon... then it's natural that monk have some fight where he is the best!

I rather DRG had something else that helps the team... If you don't have BRD in your group, that buff won't help you gain any overall dps. I know that you will almost always have a BRD in your group when it really matters, but not in 4 man groups and such... It's more of a principle thing really, I would like to have that added dps even without a BRD in the group. If DRG should have something that helps the group, I would rather like to see something else added.

MNK's beat DRG's in single target dps any day of the week... You can't balance a job based on how hard it is to play, cause there is plenty of good players out there who can get a lot out of MNK's, and it wouldn't really be fair to increase their dps just cause of that. I'm not an expert on DRG, but I do deliver a good amount of dps for my ilvl (on par with what I've heard is good), but I'm still constantly beat by MNK's, so there are people out there who do play them well.

There are some fights where MNK's have a hard time keeping up with GL and positioning overall, but it's not like DRG's can do perfect rotations during those conditions either, and MNK will still beat them. In those fights, SMN's will shine and out-dps DRG's all the time, and maybe even the MNK's. I have no problem with MNK's being ahead in a fight like Turn 8, but they beat DRG's in a lot of fights, and we DRG's have to have a BRD that does great dps to keep up with them. (not always the case, especially when using songs a lot)

[melflomil]

This will all change when Dragoons get hi jump and super jump as abilities. >.>

[Tiggy]

I'm surprised at this since doesnt DRG have a 330-impact move? Think most monk has is 190. :/ I'd be realy surprised if the fists of fire, greased lightning, and generally quicker skill speed can compensate THAT much.

It really does.

[Nero]

I could pull out a wall of text about this Topic, but i will tl;dr it:

It does not matter which Job in theory pulls how much dps, it comes down to the player and how effective he plays his Job. No matter which DPS you take with you, they are designed by SE equally and if you see differences in dps, it is because of the player and not because of the System.

There are some Theory-craftings going on, which hardly will work in an encouter due the mechanics and that is always left out of the calculations. I.e. A MNK pulling 500 dps on a dummy, will not pull out 500 dps on raffle. So just that in theory he can pull 500, does not mean he ever will, or that he will even get close to it in an encounter.

[Ihm]

It's fine, come Tomorrow BLM will destroy everything anyway.

[SokiYagami]

I still think the balance between DRGs and MNKs are pretty decent. Just pick the job you prefer more / better player among the two for runs.

We have to look at the bigger picture too, it's not like MNK can punch everything to the sky for every fight outside of t8 due to how GL stacks works, and while I'm at it, it's not like BLM are weak either, it's just the recent tier of raid doesn't give them much of a chance to shine with their insane aoe damage. (flare-works, anyone? )

If anything, I would said that SMN is more unbalance among the 5 dps. They have the highest average dps overall considering most fights, and they can raise fallen party member and have near-infinite mana too. Before incoming flames, rather than asking SE to nerf SMNs, I rather we get a little buff to the other DPS.

Nothing overkill, but for DRG's case maybe we can shorten the cd window of the jumps (DFD and backflip) and power surge. Small increase in dps, higher loldrg casualty rate due to more jumping, but hey, I think that would be fun~ /jump

And one day I said to a new DRG... "Welcome to the Jumpers Club"

[Gormogon]

http://sim.ffxivguild.net/

Yeah sure insane dps difference. Seriously #learntotakeiteasy

It's enough to make some people go insane over it though. lol

your goal in team it's to help each other... not be the best alone in your corner

Sadly a concept that's hard to get across players because the only thing dps meters like to point out and what players enjoy watching is their own contribution in comparison to others.

To bad the DPS meter doesn't go around telling players, you're not helping your group step it up. Since you know that stun that doesn't do damage, could've saved your tank or would've allowed more dps to go through as an example.

We have to look at the bigger picture too, it's not like MNK can punch everything to the sky for every fight outside of t8 due to how GL stacks works, and while I'm at it, it's not like BLM are weak either, it's just the recent tier of raid doesn't give them much of a chance to shine with their insane aoe damage. (flare-works, anyone? )

If anything, I would said that SMN is more unbalance among the 5 dps. They have the highest average dps overall considering most fights, and they can raise fallen party member and have near-infinite mana too. Before incoming flames, rather than asking SE to nerf SMNs, I rather we get a little buff to the other DPS.

Exactly right. There's a bigger picture that players don't look because the overall result is what matters.

Also yes to balance through buffs over balance through nerfs.