Regarding the Atmas, yes, another one of those.

[Nero]

So yeah I'm sure I can do grinds but Novus is just bad and I wont ever touch it till they trivialize it, if don't then so be it just means I'll be ignoring the existence of the Zodiac weapon questline after animus. >.>

What exactly is being a grind about Novus? Doing a daily Quest? You are aware that you don't have to spend myth on Novus, beside buying the scroll? Or getting the Materia? Buy it or SB it.. neither is a grind really close to Animus Books or Atma Fates.

[Gallus]

What exactly is being a grind about Novus? Doing a daily Quest? You are aware that you don't have to spend myth on Novus, beside buying the scroll? Or getting the Materia? Buy it or SB it.. neither is a grind really close to Animus Books or Atma Fates.

At least we agree about something.

[Goodberry]

Not quite sure what you mean by the "good old times". You mean in the last 6 years or so? I can tell you for a fact that 10 years ago at most, we still had grinds in MMORPGs that required way more time investment with NO ALTERNATIVES. The "good old times" would probably fit pre-mainstream mentality of the player base than the current. The amount of luck, time investment, and social aptitude needed for even the times of D&D, which dates back a lot farther than 10 years, puts today's "grind" to complete shame.

D & D? Does not even compare. Pen and paper D & D sessions were the most fun I had gaming.
Oh, MMO games use so much technology and art (not to mention money). They create wondrous virtual worlds. And what do you do all the time in these worlds?

Kill ten rats.
Gather twenty apples.
Kill that wicked Giant Rat.
Kill ten rats.
Gather twenty apples.
Oh, that Giant Rat just returned, more wicked than before. Kill it in Hard Mode.
Kill ten rats.
Gather twenty apples.
Oh, that Giant Rat just returned, more wicked than ever. Kill it in Extreme Mode.

and so on and so on, for YEARS. This is not gaming, this is doing daily chores. Why millions of people (including myself!) wilfully subject themselves to this torment, and even pay for the privilege, is one of the great mysteries of our civilisation. :P

[Welsper59]

D & D? Does not even compare. Pen and paper D & D sessions were the most fun I had gaming.
Oh, MMO games use so much technology and art (not to mention money). They create wondrous virtual worlds. And what do you do all the time in these worlds?

Kill ten rats.
Gather twenty apples.
Kill that wicked Giant Rat.
Kill ten rats.
Gather twenty apples.
Oh, that Giant Rat just returned, more wicked than before. Kill it in Hard Mode.
Kill ten rats.
Gather twenty apples.
Oh, that Giant Rat just returned, more wicked than ever. Kill it in Extreme Mode.

and so on and so on, for YEARS. This is not gaming, this is doing daily chores. Why millions of people (including myself!) wilfully subject themselves to this torment, and even pay for the privilege, is one of the great mysteries of our civilisation. :P

I agree with you on the monotony that a lot of games have (not just MMORPGs). This is actually something that a game like FFXI did right, IMO. Their quests, while extremely cryptic and sometimes next to impossible without some form of direction, generally weren't generic fetch/kill quests. A lot of them had some deeper meaning or some method about it that separates it from the norm. Then again, quests didn't give you any exp or weren't relied on for the majority of things, so /shrug lol.

I think it's just common because of the functionality it serves. To those of us that have MMORPG experience, we are fully familiar with them, and we understand that (usually) they're a fast source of leveling up... and we all know how impatient the player base is to do anything at all. For new players, it's a source of getting accustomed to the game. Understanding the rules behind quest progression, basics of how to play the game, and not an overwhelming introduction to the world of MMORPGs.

[Felis]

I feel like the first relic request is an example of a good alternative. It forces you through trials - granted they're not very difficult at this point, but at least they're varied - not through a grind.

Haha, funny
the real first relict quest was this:

1: Get 25,000 Company Seals and get key item.
2: Start Quest with Rowena
3: Get 3 hamlet seals from each hamlet
4: Choose weapon quest.
5: Craft class weapon
6: Double meld with needed materia
7: Kill NM from stronghold
8: Get 3 restorative metals from CC/AV
9: Get unfinished weapon.
10: Raise spiritbond to 100%
11: Defeat Leve NM with unfinished weapon.
12: Defeat both primals.
13: Turn in quest.

Point 3 and 10 were grinds (people complaining about ATMA never did hamlet grind)
Point 8 was a grind if your group couldn't do a 17 minute speedrun (100% dropchance within 17 minutes, 1% if it needed longer).

The relict quest you mean is a watered down version

[Magis]

I dunno about OP, but I loved the atma quest. It was a nice lazy grind when I had nothing to do. Got all 12 in a week or two? The myth books seemed like they'd be a pain but with DR it's not as bad as I thought.

I wish there were more hidden items or what have you spread around the world that you could farm or randomly get while killing mobs.