An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[Skyrant_Kangaroomouse]

A death penalty means nothing if you can't loose a level also.

The whole exp loss in FFXI would be a joke if you could not loose a level. The real punishment was loosing the level and all your shiny 75+ gear.

Unfortunately in this game it would not work since gear is not level restricted (or not yet) and loosing a level would not have such a drastic impact on your performance as it did in FFXI.

I have said it many times, learn from FFXI, there is no @#$% reason to re-invent the wheel.

[Nephera]

The whole exp loss in FFXI would be a joke if you could not loose a level. The real punishment was loosing the level and all your shiny 75+ gear.

how is that fun or encourage anything but a screaming match after a group wipe over who caused it.

[Akumu]

how is that fun or encourage anything but a screaming match after a group wipe over who caused it.

Its not fun and yea its only going to encourage "OMG YOU SUCK!" Then in the middle of the battle the victim(most likely tank or heals) disbands and lucky for us we get MORE xp loss. This sense of FEAR of death only make people angry at each other. It also hinders that possible noob healer or tank from partying and learning the mechanics because they are afraid they will mess up and get their head chewed off. Then what is another end result? The lack of tanks and healers(like XI). I'm surprise people are actually defending this ancient method of death penalty. Why does it need to be so severe? "So people will fear dying." Ahh How many people are dying because they wanted to?

[Kallera]

Death penalties should be varying depending on the event you are doing, like have one penalty for dying while on a leve, another for dying in behest, another for dying while doing your own thing. also, you can vary the penalty depending on whether you are weakened or not, to dissuade people from zerging at 1/4 max hp.

The main issue is that if there is no risk to dying in the game, then the challenge dies with it, characters are not supposed to throw themselves into unconsciousness at the enemy without some payback. I know not everyone shares this opinion, but to me the games that made me want to do better are the ones where I know that I have a limited/no number of times to screw up.

[Chardrizard]

Death penalties should be varying depending on the event you are doing, like have one penalty for dying while on a leve, another for dying in behest, another for dying while doing your own thing. also, you can vary the penalty depending on whether you are weakened or not, to dissuade people from zerging at 1/4 max hp.

The main issue is that if there is no risk to dying in the game, then the challenge dies with it, characters are not supposed to throw themselves into unconsciousness at the enemy without some payback. I know not everyone shares this opinion, but to me the games that made me want to do better are the ones where I know that I have a limited/no number of times to screw up.

why do people keep repeating no risk of dying = challenge dies?
why do people thinks guildleves WILL be the ONLY content?

i have better ideas for better challenge, harder content.. not some sp loss/penalty/etc

[Akumu]

why do people keep repeating no risk of dying = challenge dies?
why do people thinks guildleves WILL be the ONLY content?

i have better ideas for better challenge, harder content.. not some sp loss/penalty/etc

Exactly lol. Guildleves are focused more to be casual friendly anyway. So if lowering the difficulty until you find the sweet spot isn't meant to add MAJOR challenge. People are forgetting that in order for a MMO to succeed you need Hardcore as well as Casual. Why is WoW so successful? Because Blizzard knew this fact. They released CATA and changed the game around because the HARDCORE player was angry(and started leaving) because the content became WAY too easy. Leveling up is the easy part but endgame raids/PvP is what attracts the Hardcore to it. Hardcore players are the foundation while Casuals are what make the structure.

[Benediction]

Exactly lol. Guildleves are focused more to be casual friendly anyway. So if lowering the difficulty until you find the sweet spot isn't meant to add MAJOR challenge. People are forgetting that in order for a MMO to succeed you need Hardcore as well as Casual. Why is WoW so successful? Because Blizzard knew this fact. They released CATA and changed the game around because the HARDCORE player was angry(and started leaving) because the content became WAY too easy. Leveling up is the easy part but endgame raids/PvP is what attracts the Hardcore to it. Hardcore players are the foundation while Casuals are what make the structure.

Exactly. Nicely put lol

On a side note, WoW instances are really fun. I like the one at Ulduar where you can pair up with someone and one drives the tank, the other controls the canon. I love using the canon and just spam those fireballs at the mobs :x

[Naqaj]

The main issue is that if there is no risk to dying in the game, then the challenge dies with it, characters are not supposed to throw themselves into unconsciousness at the enemy without some payback.

Everytime there's a discussion about death penalties, this argument is brought up, and it just doesn't make any sense to me. I've played RO and L2, where death could set you back whole days worth of XP, and I also played WoW, where it just cost you some gold.

I tried to avoid death in WoW just as much as in any other game. Not because I feared a penalty, but because it's stupid to die, and noone wants to be defeated by a stupid NPC mob! It's the ultimate embarrassment. I don't need the game to kick me in the nuts with taking XP from me, I'm already pissed because I lost the fight. I'm supposed to be a hero saving the world, and admiting defeat to an enemy is all the penalty I need to make sure I never repeat that mistake.
Any system that takes away XP or gives me a massive debuff that prevents me from trying again doesn't make me more careful. It just makes me more likely to log off and don't care any more.

[Blackheart]

Everytime there's a discussion about death penalties, this argument is brought up, and it just doesn't make any sense to me. I've played RO and L2, where death could set you back whole days worth of XP, and I also played WoW, where it just cost you some gold.

I tried to avoid death in WoW just as much as in any other game. Not because I feared a penalty, but because it's stupid to die, and noone wants to be defeated by a stupid NPC mob! It's the ultimate embarrassment. I don't need the game to kick me in the nuts with taking XP from me, I'm already pissed because I lost the fight. I'm supposed to be a hero saving the world, and admiting defeat to an enemy is all the penalty I need to make sure I never repeat that mistake.
Any system that takes away XP or gives me a massive debuff that prevents me from trying again doesn't make me more careful. It just makes me more likely to log off and don't care any more.

HAHAHAHA!!!!! i'd have to agree with you. At this point i honestly don't think putting in a penalty would be a great idea...well...wait let me take that back, putting the EXP loss penalty would be horrible since we can only get so much anyways. Unless they took that out it would just be a bigger boot to kick us in the teeth

[Kallera]

Everytime there's a discussion about death penalties, this argument is brought up, and it just doesn't make any sense to me. I've played RO and L2, where death could set you back whole days worth of XP, and I also played WoW, where it just cost you some gold.

I tried to avoid death in WoW just as much as in any other game. Not because I feared a penalty, but because it's stupid to die, and noone wants to be defeated by a stupid NPC mob! It's the ultimate embarrassment. I don't need the game to kick me in the nuts with taking XP from me, I'm already pissed because I lost the fight. I'm supposed to be a hero saving the world, and admiting defeat to an enemy is all the penalty I need to make sure I never repeat that mistake.
Any system that takes away XP or gives me a massive debuff that prevents me from trying again doesn't make me more careful. It just makes me more likely to log off and don't care any more.

But you aren't saving the world, either.

Mage Knight Apocalypse had only a button you had to press to revive yourself once you died, and you could immediately continue where you left off on whatever boss you were working on. It was cheap, and screwed with the challenge even on its hardest difficulty. The dev team shouldn't have to count on your embarrassment to losing to a mob. Do you feel the same utter shame with every death? No, how could you? It's the same reason why people remember their first Maat fight, but not their first Three-eyed-Prozpuz. throwing bodies at a problem without a care should not be a solution.