Yoshi-P got it wrong. The mind of a win trader and a solution to win trading

[SirEdeonX]

Tbh I think the queue times are only a problem because people don't play pvp. And for what I gather on my FC (since I'm the only one interested in it of out 70 ppl) is because:

1) The rewards are ridiculously low. I've played 400 matches, with around 40% win and im at rank 18. It's RIDICULOUS.
2) Status effects should resist a lot more. 30 secs sleep or 5 sec stun is RIDICULOUS. "oh you can use purify" Yes I can. Every 2 min. While blms not only have a instantaenous sleep skill, but once I heal the sleep, they can cast it again and I'll stand there 15 secs. And plds can stun lock everyone.
3) Only one mode, and that's "catch the healer running around with sprint". Having to do that 4000 times to be able to wear something is crazy.
4) Getting matched with ppl with full animal gear when I can't even wear Direwolf.
5) Pets are still overpowered.
6) The incredible lag in movement we see that still happens in this game. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm0cOA-zALQ

The only thing worse than all this is the recent announcement that pvp gear won't matter for frontlines.
So why are we getting gear exactly? Vanity? 4000 runs for a vanity set? Does anyone in the dev team even do pvp?

[Hiruke]

The ugly truth? Wolves den just isn't that fun to the majority of the players. This is from Yoshi-P GDC conference.
Fun comes first -> If it isn't fun, you're doing it wrong.



I'm interested in Frontliine because it more akin to battlegrounds meaning it a bigger map with team objectives. Team Death-match are fun but not in a small round room.

Honestly, dev team should probably go back and review that presentation and think about what it really means.

It's difficult to believe that the dev team is unaware of the problems with PvP, and yet they do not seem inclined to alleviate it. The grind to get the iLVL 100 set is so bad that I don't even want to win trade to do it, because even by win trading it takes way too long and is not fun. I could play all of, say, Persona 4, and still have a spare 30+ hours that I could have wasted in PvP instead. Is win trading more fun than Persona 4? Not really.

A previous poster strongly implied that PvP gear is not as mission critical as you think, but this is just wrong. Assuming at least average skill, the power of higher level PvP gear is so high as to be almost insurmountable. A tank wearing Direwolf will shred most anyone who is not wearing similar gear. A tank. The gap in power is pretty incredible. Maybe some people enjoy going into PvP and getting beat down by people in crazy PvP gear, but most normal folks really don't enjoy that at all. You generally get matched with people with crazy gear, or people who don't seem to understand the concept of owning PvP gear to begin with (the latter is usually who is stuck on your team... good luck!). PvP might have been more fun if you could only wear PvP gear in Wolves Den (no PvE gear allowed) and it had a better matching system so you didn't end up with folks way stronger than you constantly.

No matter what, the length of time required to get this stuff needs to be drastically reduced. Like, you need to be able to acquire it 10x to 50x faster than you can currently. I'd like to remind you that at the start, you actually got HALF of what you do now in rewards. HALF. The grind used to be TWICE what it is now. That's how out of touch the dev team seems to be when it comes to "fun comes first", that they literally doubled the rewards and its still astronomically out of reach because its nowhere even close to balanced in terms of time spent/rewards gained. The presentation should have said "grinding comes first" between PvP, relic quests, and 1% drop rates for mirrors/mounts/minions. "Never back down", because clearly no one has anything better to do than to stay logged in 24/7 grinding! To get junk! WOO!

I actually don't mind Wolves Den, though it would be nice to have options for 8v8 in a larger arena. There's currently no middle ground between 4v4 in a VERY tight space and a grand melee in a huge area. If they had let you have all PvP abilities when it launched (like they changed it to now) and they had made PvP gear a requirement and had better matching, PvP would have been a lot more fun. The end result right now is that is just kind of sucks, and no one wants much to do with it besides to win trade to vanity gear.

[YmirEsc]

The ugly truth? Wolves den just isn't that fun to the majority of the players. This is from Yoshi-P GDC conference.
Fun comes first -> If it isn't fun, you're doing it wrong.



I'm interested in Frontliine because it more akin to battlegrounds meaning it a bigger map with team objectives. Team Death-match are fun but not in a small round room.

this this this 1000 times this

[Barboron]

I got a fix for this, all PvP gear, marks, and exp should be obtained though...


FATEs! Throw some FATEs into Frontline. Do PvP FATEs. Just give us more FATEs!

[Ametrine]

Playing PVP as a healer is a mentally draining experience, and Scholars have such a STARTLING advantage over White Mages, since you can stun and sleep the Scholar, and the Fairy still tosses heals and vice versa until the player is dead. It's infuriating.

I lasted to rank 9 before I couldn't do it anymore.

And let me add that I can't wait for Frontlines!

[TeganLaron]

I kind of understand your issue in terms of the levelling up grind, but you complain mainly about the time queuing. Well, why don't you guys who are trading wins just play each other for real? If you can actually find 8 people to do PvP with (which I can't for the life of me) why don't you just actually PvP rather than win trade.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't get it.

[Murakamo]

I kind of understand your issue in terms of the levelling up grind, but you complain mainly about the time queuing. Well, why don't you guys who are trading wins just play each other for real? If you can actually find 8 people to do PvP with (which I can't for the life of me) why don't you just actually PvP rather than win trade.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't get it.

The thing is, to have an arranged 4v4 match requires careful arrangement of ranks in each team. Furthermore, if one team is dominant then what do you think the other team will do? Quit.

I mean, if one team was dominant, you could swap a few people around every match. Once again, this requires a heap of effort and swapping people around every match is essentially... win trading. Just being a bit fancy about it.

Additionally, if one person decides to quit, then you need to start again and look for a replacement. Then you need to re-arrange teams again.

Going back to what I said before about queue times. Being someone who plays in off peak, it is very hard to find a group of 8 people who even want to pvp.

Improving solo queue times is really the only way to go. You could just get a group of 4 pre-made and the queue against the duty finder, but pre-made queue times are about 10 times longer with queue times.

[Namasu]

Honestly, dev team should probably go back and review that presentation and think about what it really means.

Agreed with pretty much everything you said in this post. We should have had objective PVP out long ago. The original plan was for Frontline to be out 6 months into launch. Now it's 9+ months already.

The truth is, they should have had tested the wolves' den long ago in beta, but they didn't (yea they let legacy player poked around for like 7 days but that was such a joke. We couldn't even submit feedback!) Now, you see them launching the wolves' den, then get ugly feedback and wonder why they gotta do so many fixes like unlocking skills and skill balancing etc. Stuffs like that should have been tested long ago or on PTR. NOT ON A LIVE GAME. It's no wonder we are at such a mess with the win trading and the obnoxious pvp grind.

[Urielparadox]

20min + ques are the norm; I never had 1 under that even when paired with a whm or tank. Why is it not a best 2/3 match with rewards based on win/losses like every real competition is? why does the wait time before the match last longer then the match? Let alone the prices are already too high, their is no way to "upgrade" you can't trade in your old gear to get back points. Really you should be able to trade in old gear that's 100% sb, with materia for slightly less then it costed. This would a give new people entering pvp an incentive/reason to buy gear. For Yoshi-P to say it has anything to do about skill is EXTREMELY INSULTING, I mean just downright disgraceful. It also means he hasn't even looked of or thought about pvp since it was release and he is living on a different planet then the playerbase. Even win trading doesn't sound pleasing at this point the amount of time it would take just win trading it players wouldn't be able to get pvp gear until i130 pvp gear was released.

[TeganLaron]

snip.

But, like, don't you want to play for fun? I mean, isn't that the whole point of playing a game? I understand if you have a full Rank 40 vs Rank 1, yeah they'll get annihilated. But I doubt your win trading groups are that far apart in terms of Rank/Gear. And as a lot of us who do PvP will know that not always the best geared team wins.

Also

Improving solo queue times is really the only way to go. You could just get a group of 4 pre-made and the queue against the duty finder, but pre-made queue times are about 10 times longer with queue times.

Sadly that's just down to a lack of interest in PvP. We can only hope that Frontlines gets people into doing regular matches too. Or at best, Frontlines is so good that it replaces Wolves Den altogether as the go to place for PvP.