Ramuh: A History and Speculation

[WellFooled]

I don't see any of the primals as being evil, even with the brainwashing. They simply provide their tribes with the power that they yearn for. Power, without cost, is corrupting.

But we know without a doubt that tempering is a real thing. Brainwashing, as you described it. The Primals aren't just giving the beastmen more power, they're removing their individuality, taking away their freedom. This isn't a result of the corrupting influence of power, this is a supernatural removal of their free will.

But you're right, they do provide the beastmen with some power. However that's like making a deal with the devil. Sure, he might give you ungodly fiddling skills but he's going to take your soul too.

This does not make them 'evil'.

If what the Primals do was possible in the real world, I'm absolutely sure it would be considered the worst possible offense you could commit. It is essentially hollowing a person out and putting something else inside. If this isn't evil, what would be?

[LaurelinKementari]

But we know without a doubt that tempering is a real thing. Brainwashing, as you described it. The Primals aren't just giving the beastmen more power, they're removing their individuality, taking away their freedom. This isn't a result of the corrupting influence of power, this is a supernatural removal of their free will.

Not all primals temper their beastmen worshippers, though. Leviathan for example, is freely worshipped by the Sahagin. Even the friendly Sahagin of the daily quests worship him, they are only of the opinion that the other Sahagin shouldn't force that worship onto shorewalkers (well, some of them do, the Sahagin giving the 7+ reputation quests says the Drowned have their place). This is even more so the case for Titan, who even on the official site is described as a father to the Kobolds. From what little dialogue we got of him, Titan genuinely cares for the Kobolds and considers them his children. Their is no evidence he has tempered any Kobolds, ever. Again, he only tempered members of the other races, and I think it was only in battle against the Company of Heroes, but I'm not sure.

Heck, even Garuda only tried to temper us, the player, when we pissed her off too much. The Ixali seem to worship her willingly, without tempering.

[Toranja]

All the Primals were worshipped by the their respective beastmen tribe before the Ascians paid them a visit.

[Morningstar1337]

My take on this is that the Primals were originally benevolent and a separate pantheon from the Twelve. Then Zordiark corrupted them and made them extensions of his will. The primals then temper others to make them extentions of their will. The overall goal. Take all the faith, if anyone has any faith in Hyadalen then Zordiark would not win, but if everyone worship Zoridiark as the ascilans do, then world domination is but a step away and Hydalean would be dead.

Naturally Zodiarks's worst opponents would be those with the Echo (Cannot be Tempered, therefore they would be harder to suck the faith out of) and maybe atheists (They don't believe in a god, though they can be tempered). Everyone else can be accounted for with a little patience, but those groups are spanners in the works.

[Magnesium02]

those with the Echo (Cannot be Tempered, therefore they would be harder to suck the faith out of).

Ah ... but could it be that the Echo is just a symptom? And that the fact that we can't be tempered by a primal is cause we have already been tempered ... by Hydaleyn herself?

[Toranja]

I would not call it tempering. My mind is still whole. I'm being shielded from tempering. And Ultima spells.

And according to the Ascians, Hydaelyn is the source of my power. The opposite of what happens with tempered subjects: they are the source of power for the primal.

[Morningstar1337]

Ah ... but could it be that the Echo is just a symptom? And that the fact that we can't be tempered by a primal is cause we have already been tempered ... by Hydaleyn herself?

I actualy have another theory based on that premise. That the Echo is a method of tempering and that Hydalyn is a Primal.

And according to the Ascians, Hydaelyn is the source of my power. The opposite of what happens with tempered subjects: they are the source of power for the primal.

I think that Hydalyn and Zordiark are polar opposites. Designed to be each other's reversal in everything, or at least every dichotomy. In fact. My last post about Zordiark making the Primals part of his will is part of a theory that also includes Hydaelyn and the Twelve being the same being.

[RygaenYuui]

Here is the lore from XI for Ramuh http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Hermit_Ramuh

[Morningstar1337]

Here is the lore from XI for Ramuh http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Hermit_Ramuh

I noticed that the other 5 primals also have corresponding lore.

[Catapult]

All the Primals were worshipped by the their respective beastmen tribe before the Ascians paid them a visit.

This is a fair point to remember. The Ascians didn't introduce Garuda to the Ixal, because legends of Garuda (including on the origin of her brutality) existed well before her first materialisation in recent history. They simply gave the Ixal a means of calling her forth from amongst the aether.

I would not call it tempering. My mind is still whole. I'm being shielded from tempering. And Ultima spells.

And according to the Ascians, Hydaelyn is the source of my power. The opposite of what happens with tempered subjects: they are the source of power for the primal.

Ah, but you would think that if you were tempered wouldn't you. You would be incapable of seeing Hydaelyn as anything other than the way, the truth and the light and would seek arguments to justify that belief.

Just saying...