Tank disrespect.

[Nabian]

snip

This x 1,000...I don't care what level you are. If you are losing hate one of two things is happening. [1] Your a bad tank and should change class. [2] Your gear is not sufficient for the content you are running. In most cases if not all its probably #1. If it ends up being #2..then get better gear.

[Axlle10]

This x 1,000...I don't care what level you are. If you are losing hate one of two things is happening. [1] Your a bad tank and should change class. [2] Your gear is not sufficient for the content you are running. In most cases if not all its probably #1. If it ends up being #2..then get better gear.

While i understand the frustration that comes with a bad tank, at no time should you tell anyone to change class and stop playing that forever. You were new once too, just because of him not being a "good" tank right this second does not mean that he will never be a good tank. We already have a lack of decent tanks so creating this stigma around tanks helps no one including yourself. Offering actual advice will do 1000 times more good than just telling someone "your bad so stop playing forever"

[TouchandFeel]

Personally I like the way aggro is handled in this game way more than in WoW and many other MMO's. In WoW it was so easy to hold aggro as a tank that you didn't have to even try, pretty much you had it and nobody is going to take it from you. In this game you have to actually put some effort into building and keeping aggro and in my opinion actually having to work somewhat to properly fulfill your role is a good thing. I'm also glad for the most part that aggro management is not solely up to the tank but the team as a whole, it makes people need to pay attention to what they are doing instead of just spamming all their abilities without a thought, although many still do unfortunately.

[Ouza]

Personally I like the way aggro is handled in this game way more than in WoW and many other MMO's. ... although many still do unfortunately.

Exactly.

I think ff14 makes us all play our class with more thinking. out of all the MMO's I've tried, I actually have to work hard to again agro, especially when there are multiple mobs or the DPS refuses to listen to tags or marks.

If healers or DPs pull agro, and especially if they run and span a distance from the tank, it is not always the tanks fault, sometimes it is the healer/dps's fault for not playing their character correctly. I'll be the first to admit to a msitake, but not to accept blame when I know I'm rotating through enemies to keep agro.

[Fornix]

I think ff14 makes us all play our class with more thinking. out of all the MMO's I've tried, I actually have to work hard to again agro, especially when there are multiple mobs or the DPS refuses to listen to tags or marks.

To be fair though, in the endgame setting the only point in time during which FF XIV is different from various other MMO's is early threat generation. The pickup threat on a single target is minimal when going through the regular rotation. Breaking regular rotation and going in with fight or flight on, shield lob, circle of scorn, spirits within, rage of halone, combo start on a single target mob and even as a PLD you excel in threat by such an amount that for an equally geared DPS it becomes impossible to overtake. During the course of the fight the threat gain increases greatly. Especially with DPS frequently taken out of active engagement by needing to perform the dance.


In SCoB this is still very much so noticable. In original coil it was laughable. If desired a PLD tank could engage in auto-attacks only midway through the fight. Now in farm runs you can do the same and play stunbot on the add if you wish.

For warriors the threat gaps over time are even greater.



To be honest, due to that I also don't think that FF XIV's threat system is so much better than that in other MMO's. Initial threat generation on paladin's in particular ought to be increased to compensate for the high level of AoE damage some ranged classes can throw out. Whereas threat generation by single target attacks from ranged classes ought to be increased to ensure they stay in range of the tank without overtaking if the tank doesn't fall asleep. The gap between PLD and WAR threat imo is also too great. In trash packs in particular a PLD often becomes useless, if anything just to be there to pick up in case healers couldn't keep up with all targets jumping on the WAR.

[Empressia]

Snip

Not really, FF14 threat generation is still damage modifier x threat generator per skill. There was a time when our static PLD MT insisted damage modifier to threat generation is non existent in FF14 and kept using i95 weapon with my DRG using using 110 weapon. Alas, i've lost count on how many times i stole boss aggro and become MT for like 20 seconds. As for ur plea regarding PLD AE tanking sux, dun forget riot blade 3rd combo hasn't been added yet, PLD may yet to receive a cleaving 3rd combo from it

[Souljacker]

Not really, FF14 threat generation is still damage modifier x threat generator per skill. There was a time when our static PLD MT insisted damage modifier to threat generation is non existent in FF14 and kept using i95 weapon with my DRG using using 110 weapon. Alas, i've lost count on how many times i stole boss aggro and become MT for like 20 seconds. As for ur plea regarding PLD AE tanking sux, dun forget riot blade 3rd combo hasn't been added yet, PLD may yet to receive a cleaving 3rd combo from it

Maybe, but that combo doesn't have an enmity add effect and I don't expect the cleave in that chain would, either. RoH would be nice as a cleave skill, but it leaves lower level paladins with only Flash still which is not as good as Overpower. Leveling Paladin has been painful compared to the more or less AFK tanking you can do as a warrior. And since I'm not a huge fan of asking for skills to be removed from classes, I'd rather see something added to Paladin to bring it in line with Warrior throughout the entire experience.

Just because the playerbase has adapted to the current design, doesn't make it a *good* design. Tanking in general could really use another look.

[Adler]

I have seen a tank with level 100 gear in Brayflox hm who pulled mobs in packs of 3 and still coudn't hold aggro even for 1 mob. And the tank was the one giving advice to others to change class. Seriously, I was speechless.

[TouchandFeel]

I have seen a tank with level 100 gear in Brayflox hm who pulled mobs in packs of 3 and still coudn't hold aggro even for 1 mob. And the tank was the one giving advice to others to change class. Seriously, I was speechless.

Unfortunately iLvl is not a good indicator of skill or even basic comprehension. I still run into WHM in 90+ gear with Zenith's or Atma's that have to be told not to cast regen during a pull and say they don't understand how agro works in this game because its "really complicated".

[Naryoril]

This x 1,000...I don't care what level you are. If you are losing hate one of two things is happening. [1] Your a bad tank and should change class. [2] Your gear is not sufficient for the content you are running. In most cases if not all its probably #1. If it ends up being #2..then get better gear.

sorry, but this is just wrong. Someone already pointed out [1], so i'll talk about 2

When i reached 50 as a paladin i put on some tank gear i gathered as a monk and reached an item level of 68 or so. I started with my relic quest for which i had to go to AK. There i was paired with a black mage and a draggon, both had ilvl 100 on almost every slot, and i it was really really difficult to hold aggro against them, especially since the dragoon often didn't attack the marked target (so i built my initial "first-target-aggro" on the "wrong" enemy), and of course the black mage was going wild with AoE. I mostly managed to hold aggro somehow, but i lost mobs quite often for a few seconds. Are you telling me that ilvl 68 is not enough for AK or that i'm a bad tank?
I had fun during that run though, it really pushed me to the edge. Tanking: The other type of PvP.

It isn't "your gear is not good enough for the content you are running" but "your gear is outclassed by the damage dealers". And another aspect is "damage dealers are not listening".