If DR rewards boil down to myths per hour anyway...

[stupiddog]

It all boils down to myths per hour. so why not make it this way: Give NO myths (or possibility to queue for DR) at all unless first-timers are present, and when they are present, give 3 myths per minute (time spent not being in a fight, explaining something via chat, or watching c/s does not count, obviously). Problem solved. Yes, the number of myths/solderies and the grinds would need to be rebalanced, but that is mostly technical work. We would be rewarded for what we, as experienced players, are wanted in these dungeons in the first place.

Another idea: First-time players (and only for the very first time they play the dungeon) should decide which player gets how many myths. Making a good impression and making an effort to explain something to new player in a polite tone would be rewarded, rudeness would not.

The basic idea behind this: The rewards make you sort of an SE employee enyway. An experienced player USUALLY does not revisit an old dungeon just for fun, he does it for a salary (myths, in most cases). So why not reward the exact thing that SE (and a comunity striving to be a good one) wants from you/us: being helpful and nice.

EDIT:The myth per minute is not such a good idea, the abuse would be too easy. Instead, the amount of myths should be set for a whole run including time for (forced) c/s, explaining things, and small pulls.

[Noahlimits]

It should NEVER be up to another player to decide how much myth each person gets. Rewards do not make players a SE employee in any way, shape or form.

As for your first idea, that won't solve anything. If it's 3 myth per minute, that just begs for abuse. People 'accidentally" causing wipes so that it takes longer to complete the dungeon, etc etc. Policing done by actual players would absolutely not work. Power corrupts.

[stupiddog]

I agree with the critique on myths/min, that abuse did not come to my mind when I wrote it. As for the rest, which kind of abuse could one player (who could excercise this right for one time per dungeon anyway) do?

Regarding the "power corrupts": We now have the exact opposite problem. The current system rewards players who kick newbies out of dungeons if they want to watch c/s (see today's Castrum thread for an example), it does not do a thing against rudeness etc. Make the newbie the king, and it could change.

[Welsper59]

It's absolutely mandatory that the developers of any game look at the consumer/player as a child. I'm not exaggerating at all on that comment, but I'm also not intending it to be offensive. A developer cannot trust the player base (as a whole) to behave accordingly. The proof of that comes from all around. Harassment, griefing, trolls, win-trading, hacking, complaints that someone is watching a cutscene, etc. If a developer actually truly expects the player base to behave like adults (mature and patient), then they're setting themselves up for a reality check rather fast.

That being said, it's a horrible idea to do this. While it may be a rather connecting event (in most cases) to be done between friends, the majority of the player base queues/joins groups solo. Just as you wouldn't want to trust that twitching homeless person with your money, you probably wouldn't want an unknown player controlling your reward.

[stupiddog]

That being said, it's a horrible idea to do this. While it may be a rather connecting event (in most cases) to be done between friends, the majority of the player base queues/joins groups solo. Just as you wouldn't want to trust that twitching homeless person with your money, you probably wouldn't want an unknown player controlling your reward.

Sorry, but these are apples and oranges. IRL I have to deal with customers (in my comparison, they are the newbies...). Some pleasent, some rather unpleasent. Not their problem. I want something (my paycheck at the end of the month, or regarding ff14 the myths), so I need to control myself and behave. So, what is the problem with that?

[ruinedmirage]

that's why the commendation thing was added, to bribe people to play nice by offering rewards. you really gotta question what kind of game you're playing when you have to bribe the most sought after reward for the current patch.

then you have to think of how it will be abused, which I don't think you are. simply make an alt for first time completion, get a friend, run the dungeons and award all the extra myth to him, rinse and repeat.

try to remember that MMO dev process goes something along the lines of concept -> abuse -> limitations and restrictions -> punishments -> fun

As for myth per hour, brayflox sr is still better, I think, and with a good team there's far less drama.

[stupiddog]

simply make an alt for first time completion, get a friend, run the dungeons and award all the extra myth to him

Player, not character. I guess if someone really has the energy and money to buy new FF14 copies and/or hack other people's accounts, there is nothing in the world that could stop him.

As for the current situation, do you think SE really anticipated this? Should they really think "Well, let Darwin sort it out" then yes, they are beyond help and I am in the wrong place.

[ruinedmirage]

Player, not character. I guess if someone really has the energy and money to buy new FF14 copies and/or hack other people's accounts, there is nothing in the world that could stop him.

As for the current situation, do you think SE really anticipated this? Should they really think "Well, let Darwin sort it out" then yes, they are beyond help and I am in the wrong place.

In my opinion, SE has done everything they can to put restrictions as well as incentives and be fair. As far as I know, it works in Japan, but NA audience is just greedy and self centered. They've taken all the necessary steps needed to make a great game, but if we don't want to play nice, that's our own problem. More bribery will lead to more abuse and more bad attitudes. Nature of the beast.

[Vahlnir]

In my opinion, SE has done everything they can to put restrictions as well as incentives and be fair. As far as I know, it works in Japan, but NA audience is just greedy and self centered. They've taken all the necessary steps needed to make a great game, but if we don't want to play nice, that's our own problem. More bribery will lead to more abuse and more bad attitudes. Nature of the beast.

Couldn't help but agree with this statement concerning some people. You probably shouldn't make a generalization like this on the forums though as most don't act this way in-game...it's gonna get ugly fast so be ready.

As to the OP, it's a really, really bad idea and screams "abuse."

Power corrupts.

[stupiddog]

More bribery will lead to more abuse and more bad attitudes. Nature of the beast.

Where exactly would that bribery take place? Nobody knows beforehand in which DF queue he will be, so it is quite inprobably the players in the instance know each other. And (not tried this yet) is there even a /tell functionality in instances? If everything is open chat, how could a bribe take place?

But regarding your impression about the NA audience, I have to add the EU one as well (which I am a part of, so forum mods, please do not scream discrimination)