New Classes and Bard, the need for a second job.

[Grizzlebeard]

Pugilist => Counter based tank could work I guess, since unlike Lancer its combos aren't dependent on direction, but everything else just wouldn't work.

They could go Pug+Cnj and go down the Dancer route with it focussed on TP driven melee-heals.

[Erana]

Btw it has been said by Yoshi and SE that secondary jobs could have their skillsets changed to suit the new Job. So a Dark Knight stemming from gladiator wouldn't necessarily have the same enmity combos.

[Gormogon]

snip

Moba can do it with 2 or less abilities despite some abilities being considered clones to another characters kit.

Personally it's all about visual presentation and representation. As long as visually there's a difference and kit added will flow in smoothly to define it. From my point of view the difference between Class and Job can easily be defined through a simple representation of that change.

As an example aside from AF gear.

Archer to Bard = Songs
Arcanist to Scholar = Faerie
Arcanist to Summoner = Egi
Conjurer to White Mage = Holy
Gladiator to Paladin = Shield Oath + Hollowed Ground
Lancer to Dragoon = Jump
Marauder to Warrior = Defiance + Steel Cyclone
Pugilist to Monk = DragonKick
Thaumaturge to Black Mage = Flare

So if Archer gets a 2nd job to be more DPS oriented while the options are limited it will stand out based on that presentation. Yet I don't know how they'll address it or what they have planned. My assumption on the matter will be through the following. Will it have that damage ability from past Final Fantasy titles that will define Archer's 2nd job such as Sidewinder or Ultima Shot? Will the 2nd Archer job turn into pet dps job using animals such as a hawk, bear, etc? Will it still use the design principle of having Archer have some sort of management role for the party and give it access to traps?

Though I don't know. The possibilities are there but in the end Square-Enix will be the one to make that call.

I agree on the part regarding traits and I have no idea how that can be addressed.

[SionDurant]

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My hope is that Dark Knight and Red Mage simply are built together as an entirely new class, based off of the Ishgardian storylines.

Inquisitor - A mystic warrior of the Holy See, charged with rooting out heretics within the Ishgardian order.

Dark Knight - An inquisitor who has resorted to the power of the void to subdue the perils that face Ishgard. Considered an outcast among his peers.

Red Mage - A devoted Ishgardian spellblade, learned in both the ways of black magic and white.

[LineageRazor]

many dps are also just too lightly armored to become tanks, leaving this possibility only to LCRs and PGLs, unless ARC were to suddenly pick up a pet aspect for potential tanking, which would still leave it short of the dps afforded to 'pure' dps.

I wouldn't worry about gear being a concern. SCH has already shown that SE's willing to kit jobs out in gear unwearable by their base class or by other jobs from that class. As an example, say that PGL gets a new tanking job - let's call it Templar. TMP gets access to the same tanking gear normally exclusive to PLD and WAR, as well as Job Abilities focused on Enmity and Damage Mitigation.

Folks shouldn't get too hung-up on class abilities that seem incompatible with job rolls. I adore the suggestions folks have made about Dark Knight having damage based on Enmity, allowing them to use MRD or GLD enmity combos (depending on which class was the base for DRK) to pump up their damage potential, then using job abilities to shed that Enmity if it starts to get out of control. It would be a tightrope very fitting with the classic Final Fantasy motif of the Dark Knight drawing upon dangerous and harmful powers to defeat opponents.

Even seemingly irreconcilable class dependencies like THM's dependence on Astral Fire and Umbral Ice can be overcome if you're clever about it. Let's say that THM gains a healing class Sage. SGE gains a healing spell called Radiance which adds stacks of Astral Fire (as well as potency and mp cost), and Stasis which applies damage mitigation of some kind (perhaps Stoneskin, or a 30% damage reduction) while adding Umbral Ice. SGE would need to balance MP management (during which they can't really cure effectively, but can still reduce damage taken) with curing phases. While there's a lot of work to be done to make this workable, I think it demonstrates that THM isn't necessarily locked into DD by its mechanics.

[Shurrikhan]

They could go Pug+Cnj and go down the Dancer route with it focused on TP driven melee-heals.

Even seemingly irreconcilable class dependencies like THM's dependence on Astral Fire and Umbral Ice can be overcome if you're clever about it. Let's say that THM gains a healing class Sage.

I'm by no means saying that these things aren't doable. All I'm saying is that the current system, which allows no ability renames, reworks, or general mechanical changes upon job-equip, forces us to be 'clever' about it to the point of being gimmicky. Just like your Sage example, you could easily take the THM set and create a shamanistic healer that bounces between the aspect of 'living flame' (or 'heartfire' / 'hearthfire' / whatever) and 'weathered soul' ('chill calm', 'cold embrace', etc.) as with the AF and UI mechanics. It could move between restorative, building heals (AF / LF) and compromising buffs that build up usable resource with time (UI / WS). Or, again, your Radiance / Stasis system on Sage, or whatever else. It just feels strange to not then have Fire I, II, and III, etc., renamed and re-tooltip-ed to their respective uses when that job crystal is equipped to make the job feel real. Such would be a change that both is, and is not, huge, allowing for more of a job aspect without losing the ability structure of the base class. I hope such will be implemented, or at least considered, with time.

[Shurrikhan]

Btw it has been said by Yoshi and SE that secondary jobs could have their skillsets changed to suit the new Job. So a Dark Knight stemming from gladiator wouldn't necessarily have the same enmity combos.

Could I have a link for this bit of news?

(I'm not doubting it; it's just an important issue to me, and I'd like to see the full bit.)

[Enepttastic]

Honestly, the only one I can realistically see working, is Marauder => Dark Knight (Thaumaturge sub with access to Fire/Blizzard). First ability just needs to be "Increases damage taken X%, magic damage proportional to enmity level, magic attacks shed enmity.", then it works perfectly well with Marauders enmity related abilities and creates a viable system to cast nukes (something lacking in XI). Build up enmity, nuke. Use Storm's Path combo, Foresight, ToB, pull hate and do an absolutely devastating magic attack (presumably with its version of Flare/Holy).

Holy crap...I freaking love this idea. Seriously, love it.

[ruskie]

As for tanking... ARC/BRD would be viable as a dex based dodge style tank - damage avoidance vs mitigation. I've done OT duties often on BRD(green add in garuda hm, iron giants in CT behe fight, I also have featherfoot and keen flurry, love it when titan hm tries to swipe(after MT dies) at me and there's dodge, dodge, dodge, dodge on the screen, MTed sastasha as arc(with that level of gear - first time I went into sastasha in beta with 3 dsp and a healer hehe).

Potential is there. As a WHM though I see most DRG/LNC dying a lot - even great ones that focus DRG for raids(and that's before I count blood for blood).

[Enepttastic]

Potential is there. As a WHM though I see most DRG/LNC dying a lot - even great ones that focus DRG for raids(and that's before I count blood for blood).

Well, considering how one acted when I chastised him for pulling groups as a DPS in a DF run I was tanking, this response may explain it:

I am a tank.

He learned after the healer and I let him die a couple of times, that or he left and we got a sane DPS. Can't remember now.