Battle Reform: Enmity (07/06/2011)

[Cichy]

Yeah Weigraf, take that! Let's see you make me restart the game from scratch again just because I saved right before your battle and didn't have a backup save!

rofl, I did exact same thing

[Antonn]

In before Threat Meters ruin the game.

....darn

Not having an Enmity meter takes as much skill as hitting the sweet spot on a gathering node. Congrats you guessed right/wrong.

[Capita]

Obviously Vrtra became a push over after people learned to melee burn but this was several months before people seemed to figure that out, oh and everyone's gear sorta still sucked at this point and there wasn't merits iirc.

Sounds like the difficulty was more at the players' faults for not utilizing TP burn as a possible boss mechanic. Kinda like trying to attempt H Festergut without stacking for spores. Try H Festergut without stacking for spores and it's infinitely harder (likely impossible without the 30% buff), while stacking makes the fight a nonfactor. Or like fighting H LDW the old fashioned way -- i.e. not stacking on her platform -- but with Aspect of the Pack on (we actually tried this for fun).

If using the TP burn mechanic turned the fight into a nonfactor, then it's not as difficult as prenerf M'uru or Kael, who were still difficult and people had to play at 100% even after killing them multiple times. The fight length does not matter because that's a design choice by both companies. Blizzard wants its fights more fast-paced so they usually put a 10-minute limit before it kills everyone.

As for H LK, it was a difficult fight. You guys did it 5% faster than my guild (we're a casual guild that got 25-man H LK at 15%), but just the fact that most hardcore ICC guilds still couldn't beat him is a testament to just how difficult the fight was. There were guilds that farmed prenerf M'uru and prenerf Kael (Tyranny on Drak'tharon) that still couldn't kill him past 5%. No one even killed him without the buff until after they were already geared to the teeth.

But that's neither here nor there. My point is, an enmity gauge (or lack thereof) doesn't make the game easy or difficult. It's pretty much a nonfactor and people should focus more on harder boss fights than something stupid like being able to see threat.

[Naylia]

Lol is anyone still playing?? xD that's funny

Not everyone has as much free time. I'm just getting to the point where I'm starting to gather mats from NM runs. MY LS is throwing an event just for me (since they've all had their gear for months)

[Val_Rhys]

While I don't have much of an opinion for or against the enmity meter, I do have a general concern with too much information and combat that is exceedingly fast-paced. That is, when players have access to too much information, you inevitably find yourself staring at the UI, rather than the battle itself.

In FFXIV, enmity gauges, no auto-attack (changing in 1.18), poor battle regimen UI, etc. all contribute to simply staring at the action bar, HP bars, etc. The pace of combat and the frequency of action utilization contribute to this as well, making FFXIV inherently have a greater emphasis on over-focusing on the UI as compared to, say, FFXI (relatively slow combat, relatively few UI modifications).

An obvious example of this, in my eyes, was the WoW battle structure. The combat mechanics in particular battles forced players to watch the battle, but in SO many battles (as a healer), I was simply staring at the UI.

All I can say is that I hope FFXIV finds an appropriate balance. It's difficult and so many changes are being made that we don't know how it will yet turn out.

[Skyrant_Kangaroomouse]

The thread meter is pointless. Green, orange, or red icon ~ seriously, a traffic light. Not only is this a joke, it also is as useful as a shot in the head.

So basically you have, no hate, some hate, "OH shit! I am gonna die". How is that helping in any shape or form? It's as useful as a crash indicator in a car that goes off once you hit the wall. "It's RED! oh right , the mob is hitting me, thanks for pointing that out

I for one loose more and more interest in coming back after this update. I was looking forward to the battle and class changes. I was really hopeful it would turn the game around and make the game play more enjoyable.

Now i think i am better off just putting this game down for good. It just turns more and more into a game for a crowd i don't want to play with.

[Raistlin]

if u dont like it, just ask for a toggle and turn it off but stop flamming, someone could like it.

[Capita]

Now i think i am better off just putting this game down for good. It just turns more and more into a game for a crowd i don't want to play with.

So you automatically think people who like the enmity meter are inferior to, and less intelligent than you?

Yeah, I don't want to play with you either.

[northernsky]

Oops, I missed that part sorry! It's not equivalent at all.

I'd rather a party is efficient because the players have learned how to play properly rather than the game artificially improving performance with more indicators. I enjoy learning how to improve how I play, but on the other hand I don't want to risk angering my party because I choose not to acknowledge all of the information available to me. Whey they add this I'll be coerced into using it just like everyone else, but I still won't like it.

Fair enough. I guess to this point it's a matter of preference. Personally I don't really mind either way, I'm more concerned by the revisions to the algorithms than the meter itself. I will wait and see how it is implemented before saying if I like it or not, I was just disagreeing with people arguing that hate meter = for stupid people. Btw I didn't include you in that category.

[Cichy]

You can put all the meters you want but the people you play with will still MPK you, aggro stuff, flail fafnirs, overnuke, etc, etc. One thing I learned from playing XI for 6 years is that 90% of people dont pay attention regardless of how many meters and explanations you give them.