Isnt it time that white mages got buffed to level of Schoalr already?

[Raestloz]

You have a few good points but you are glorifying the SCH and not really thinking about the WHM's strengths to the end.

Like, what does Fey Illumination working for everybody and Divine Seal working for the WHM only have to do with the WHM being inferior to the SCH? In practice, the WHM is getting a 50% healing boost and the SCH is getting a 20% boost, if both are active. Divine Seal is super good and on a 1m CD. You can have 11 ticks of Divine Sealed Regen up per minute. That is, 33 seconds out of 60 seconds. (Dots and HoTs being on a 3s timer per tick, refreshing Regen at the end of DS). On top of the Cure 1'ing and Freecuring, this is some good maintenance healing.

Ignoring the use of Fey Illumination and assuming a WHM uses a few Cures during their Divine Seal used on cooldown, on top of maximizing their DS'd Regen uptimes, they're looking at about 620 potency of highly mana efficient healing without doing a single Cure 2 outside of Freecures. (With average Freeproc rates, and with the average Regen potency being 174.5 if 11/20 ticks are DS'd and 9/20 'normal', per minute). Scholars can maintenance heal at about 655-660 potency (Physick + Embrace). Yes, 655-660ish, not 700, because while Embrace is listed as 300 potency, it actually is in the 255-260 range. Assuming you Rouse on cooldown, that comes closer to 690 potency over time. Not a drastic difference in mana usage or potencies, considering the other excels in ST healing anyway.

Yes, I know Scholars have Lustrates, Adloquium and all the goods, but so does WHM have the on-demand healing. Whispering Dawn is good but it can be up 1/3 of the, not on demand all the time. Yes, a SCH's shields get wasted less than a WHM's heals even when overhealing happens, but guess what, a WHM has their godly 18% stoneskin, too, that they can cast instead of a healing spell.

Because fairy boost means things like:
Second Wind
Additional Slotted Cure/Physick in BLM/PLD's skills
Arcanist Physick

Are all boosted, and is more useful to the party as a whole, even the other healer gets the effect, as you say.

I do not argue that Divine Sealed Regen plus Cure 1 is good, but so does boosted Physick + Embrace + Fairy Regen, and is objectively even better. When fairy boost is not active, Scholar can use Rouse to improve the healing of Fairy by itself.

You're also forgetting the fact that that SCH's 660 potency comes with only the cost of Physick's MP, while WHM's also comes at the cost of Regen's MP cost

The equivalent of Whispering Dawn for WHM is Medica II, which has been "nerfed" by reducing heal potency and increasing regen time. As much as I don't want to admit it, Medica II is pretty much only useful for TitEx and T2 Enrage, mainly because on-demand healing is usually about "keep us from dying, right NOW" in this regard, both AoE regens are useless, but while Medica II generates an incredible amount of enmity (which can cause current monsters to aggro the WHM), Dawn will direct the aggro to fairy. Medica II also comes at unnatural MP cost.

Every second you're not healing is a second wasted not healing. While it is true that Graniteskin grants 18% of max HP mitigation, it requires 3 seconds to cast. By comparison, Aldoquium requires only 2 seconds to cast.

If we assume that a target has 10000 HP (currently only available to Warriors), Graniteskin will grant the target with 1800 HP. That's the top line. Now, I'm not going to kid myself and provide exact numbers that are accurate about Adlo's potential, because I don't know the way cure potency mechanics work, but suffice to say that if Adloquium crits and heals for 600HP (the heal itself), the shield will be 1200 HP, which easily trumps Graniteskin, if only due to the more efficient MP cost and faster cast time.

And you simply don't crit for 600 in end-game, you'd crit for more, especially thanks to Warrior's 20% heal buff. If the Heal crit is 650, the shield will be 1300, for a total of 1950 HP.

I'm not going to lie to you, my Cure 2, with Divine Seal crits for 3.6-3.8k. By comparison, my Cure usually crits for about ~1500. Considering that Adlo's potency is 300, its crit will probably hover around ~1200, which will bring its effective potency to ~3800. Graniteskin has to cover a target with 20.000 HP just to scratch 3600 damage mitigation

Stoneskin is effective, it simply isn't efficient. When you take into account that Adlo's crit doubles its shield's strength (which is already the amount of heal to begin with), its potential busts through the roof. Stoneskin scales with target, Adlo scales with YOU. Stoneskin's advantage is the 30 minutes long up time, but mid-battle it's rarely useful, unless your alternatives are worse (such as when used by Paladin)

[Tranquil]

Sorry to give a fast reply to your long thought-out post, but I am in a hurry so I'll just tackle the things I noticed immediately:

Fair enough about skills such as Second Wind etc, but these are honestly very marginal in the grand scheme of the things.

I didn't really forget that Regen MP thing, but didn't really bring it up because of the slightly higher in-combat MP-regen of most WHMs (due to gearing preferences and MP-regen being 2% per tick in-combat, though this does not compensate for their overall worse sustainability, yes) and because they will be spending a GCD here and there doing a Freecure during which they regen some MP back. Yes, you are right it adds up, but not by a lot considering you only cast Regen 3 times a minute. Now, I do think WHMs in general have worse sustainability, but that's for another time.. (I said in my very first post of this thread that Piety scaling for SoS would be nice!)

I also agree that the current Medica II is in many ways inferior to the older one, but it still has its uses, even in the SCoB. Medica II is really fantastic in T6. It can be used in T7 too for a slight regen-effect on the MT while also healing some of the fireballed people (not optimal most of the time, but alright). In T9, a single Medica II is good enough for the Meteor Streams (with a manual Cure/Physick on the "double dipped person"), later supplemented by a Succor. Aggro isn't honestly an issue with most stuff post-2.1.

Also, Stoneskinning in combat is not "rarely useful", because there are many near-instagib mechanics in this game. A Stoneskin should be up for Ravensbeaks in T9, it should be up for the Bahamut's Claws to come. There are many situations where it works wonders in tandem with a SCH's Adloquium. Now, I won't argue that Adlo is more mana-efficient overall, but Stoneskin has plenty of uses.

Honestly, I am not going to argue about the SCH being better for ST healing, because that is what the SCH is. But just for that reason, the overall synergy of the party is hurt a lot if there is no WHM present, in most content.

[Raestloz]

[EDIT:

I had said some things, due to the forum's @#^&/* policy of only 1k chars per post, I had to cut some of the content (for later pasting through edit post). Unfortunately for some reason it looks like I merely deleted instead of cutting. I pressed Back in my browser but the true text is no longer around. I'll try to type them again when I feel like it. Definitely not now

[givemeraptors]

SCH might have an edge in Coil, but when it comes to primals I am in near constant envy of my fellow WHM being able to top everyone off almost instantly with a well-placed Medica II. WHM AoE healing blows SCH so far out of the water it more than evens out the classes.

I think WHM find themselves in the same spot as BLMs vs. SMNs where AoE capability is downplayed in endgame content. The saving grace of WHMs though is that primals still deal lots of AoE damage meaning WHM isn't, and is not in danger of, becoming obsolete. The classes are balanced fine. I like having one of each, but if they were going to be stacked I prefer WHM/WHM with situational SCH/SCH pairing (Turn 1, for example). I think that is the definition of balance.

[AldoVonAlexandros]

no, because in all the jobs in the game, sch and whm are the best balanced jobs, they complement their selfs u know, when u have a kickass whm and a kickass sch like me, pfffff, and c mon, theres content where u can use 2 whm or 2 sch or 1 sch or 1 whm, u just have to know how to use the job, its like warriors, people didnt knew how to play warrior and SE change it, so, i think whm/sch are well balanced

[Yumi_umi]

Nah lol i rather have SE keep whm different from sch as it already is. If we got buffed to sch level then we might aswell be called white scholar mage, WSM.
I prefer whm as i believe they have a potentially higher dps output than a sch if you were to pit them against dungeon level 50s mobs.
Also i think some schs are forgetting about our repose. Let's us cheat dungeons in a way.
* emnity sleep resetting

The only thing about pvp that i can say is that when it comes to sch the only advantage they have is being a split target. Too much new players, noobs, reckless ppl have a hard time trying to figure out " should i kill the fairie or the sch 1st ".
But when the ppl above see whm they go
" oh, only ( 1 ) healer let's burn them. "

[Vlady]

Well two things will ultimately happen as the game matures. Either white mage gets left behind and scholars become the norm in most every engagement or you will start getting hatred from your free company associates for weakening the raid as a whole as a white mage. SOS piety scaling would be immensely helpful but they really should remove medica 1 from the game and strengthen cure 3 with a high potency single target cure and a larger yalm but maybe half potency cure for everyone else. Or maybe even give white mages a rebirth ability on a long timer they can buff a tank that automatically revives or acts as a hail mary instant heal for 50% health if the tank hits 0 hp.

[AldoVonAlexandros]

Well two things will ultimately happen as the game matures. Either white mage gets left behind and scholars become the norm in most every engagement or you will start getting hatred from your free company associates for weakening the raid as a whole as a white mage. SOS piety scaling would be immensely helpful but they really should remove medica 1 from the game and strengthen cure 3 with a high potency single target cure and a larger yalm but maybe half potency cure for everyone else. Or maybe even give white mages a rebirth ability on a long timer they can buff a tank that automatically revives or acts as a hail mary instant heal for 50% health if the tank hits 0 hp.

how do u come with this? that will never happen, because there are going to be hybrid jobs, new jobs and new skills, not necesary a buff over sch, and ofcourse, its a WHM, whm will never be left behind

[peaches]

snip

Just thought I'd chime in and give you the Adlo numbers. My Adlo cures for ~800, and ~900 on Warriors. My crits are normally between 1200-1400, but with Convalescence up (and possibly Fey Illumination) I crit somewhere between 1500-1900 (could probably be 2k+ crits if I made sure it was on a WAR, with Convalescence, Fey Illumination, and possibly a Monk's Mantra), and regular Adlo heals for ~1000-1200.

[Seryl199]

I play as both white mage and scholar, and I'd always rather have one of each in a raiding environment. White mages have big on demand heals, where scholars have more stable heals with utility. Have two white mages, and you'll have bursty heals but might run into mp issues with some content without a bard. Have two scholars, and you'll have tons of stability, which is great, though you may lack the burst healing needed for an unforeseen mistake. If you have a well coordinated party that makes few mistakes, you can probably get through most content pretty easily.

Having one of each will, of course, strike a balance in between. This is nice because of a scholar's healing throughput, especially when it comes to single target healing, but offset by the white mage's on demand cure bombs, which can patch up unmitigated spike damage, heal unplanned raid damage quickly, and plop divine seal regens under your adloquium crits to help keep the tank nice and healthy. While there's no real necessity to run one of each healer, they provide such a natural synergy that it seems silly to not pair them together whenever possible.