Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[ApolloGenX]

Myth #1 : Bosses have to be insta death mechanic driven or it's tank and spank - it's one extreme or the other.

Truth : There can be a compromise and there have been plenty of games for the past 20 years that have had fun and difficult bosses that didn't rely on overuse of these mechanics.

Myth #2 : Players asking for variation in encounter design want things to be "easier"

Truth : Some players want a varied play experience and some feel the current design undermines motives for attaining some current rewards and discourages or prohibits grouping options.

Myth #3 : The developers have to choose ALL one way or ALL the other

Truth : Devs can be flexible or create content for different types of play

... so if you disagree with the OP, great. Why do some people keep posting trying to argue with other players about thier experiences?

[Litre]

I disagree with nearly all of that post.

If there were no mechanics like that. Basicly every single fight would turn into a tank and spank.

Argh... Please read the follow-up on the OP post, but anyways this sums it up: "I'm not saying that gimmicks/mechanics are evil and should be removed completely, just that fights should not be “driven” by them."

No one wants a tank and spank!

[Iriadysa]

Argh... Please read the follow-up on the OP post, but anyways this sums it up: "I'm not saying that gimmicks/mechanics are evil and should be removed completely, just that fights should not be “driven” by them."

No one wants a tank and spank!

Of course the OP doesn't want just tank and spank. What the OP wants is irrelevant mechanics and gear carried encounters.

"Oh sorry guys, I got hit by that red circle... hehehe. Healz pls."

Let me tell you what happens when a party member gets hit by a "mechanic" that isn't deadly: nothing. As a healer, I just toss some AoE or simply let Eos deal with it. Maybe, if I'm bored, I may actually bother healing the person hit directly... though honestly I'd probably just toss a Bio or something instead.

Why? Because if you aren't going to die from a mechanic then there's really no rush to heal your HP.

Unless, of course, you want a sequence of non deadly mechanics that will kill you if you aren't healed in between them, to which I ask: why so adamant on moving all the game difficulty on the healers and tanks? That would simply make healers complain "this is too hard!" and we are back to square one.

Yeah totally agree with that. Yet it's kind of expecting much from elitist to want to give the time of day to the casual player base. That's just how the american culture is.

I'm sure victimizing your position is going to help push the argument forward. Yes, that's sarcasm. I've read this whole thread and quite honestly I see nothing that looks like a personal attack or an ego trip.

[ApolloGenX]

Of course the OP doesn't want just tank and spank. What the OP wants is irrelevant mechanics and gear carried encounters.

Unless, of course, you want a sequence of non deadly mechanics that will kill you if you aren't healed in between them, to which I ask: why so adamant on moving all the game difficulty on the healers and tanks? That would simply make healers complain "this is too hard!" and we are back to square one.

*See Myth 1 & Myth 3

(See? I even numbered them, so you could tell before responding which myth you might be invoking)

[Ooshima]

Snip

I can understand where that point is coming from but I'm still not agreeing to it.

Some fights are meant to have a certain sense of difficulty, some fights are meant to be the toughest, like coil2.

Whilst gear itself can be seen as largely irrelevant to instant kill mechanics, but the thing is not all mechanics are instant kill. In fact, most are not. This is where gear could help you in a way or another.

Higher HP means you can endure hits better, for example, less prone to getting knocked out by tumults when you didn't manage to get topped off earlier. Higher HP from gears also helps you in enduring big hits such as Circle of Flames from Melusine or able to eat Nael's double dive without heals or you could eat double dive with a Second Wind self heal if your healers happened to get caught in something else.

Having better gear also ensure that you can deal more damage given the same skill level which actually can save the fight when shit hits the fan. For example, in one of my recent carry runs on Titan EX, 2 DPS accidentally fell down due to miscomm and it was left with me (BRD) and a SMN. Because we are so geared (i110 weapons and average ilvl over 100) we can still go past Superbombs safely. Of course this is an example if being severely overgearred but it doesn't change the fact that gear helps. In fact Titan EX was doable with 3 DPS back then in 2.1 with i90 gears shows that gear can help.

Some of these tough mechanics are recoverable thou. We've recovered from 1-2 deaths from kiters and healers in T7, dead DPS on Turn 8. I've seen many teams on Turn 9 having DPS die a couple of times and still cleared. Depends on the severity of the mistake - and of course, gear helps in here. When starting out in T9 with i95ish gears having your DPS die 1 or 2 time may result in you hitting the enraged timer, but as you gear up having your DPS die 1 or 2 times to divebombs or elemental attacks aren't too bad as your other geared DPS can cover for the loss. Gear is not that irrelevant, but only irrelevant when you make big ass mistakes such as firing your curse voice across the area and freezing almost everyone else.

With all these said, let us recall that most of the most punishing mechanics are either scripted or have some major indicator coming. One shouldn't be caught surprised by it. Say T5, Twintania disappears and you know it's time for divebombs so by the conventional strat, move your butt into the pit and get ready. There's really quite some time allowance there, it's not like DB indicators come 1s after Twinny disappears. The reason you can't make it in time is probably you are losing concentration. Cursed Voice from T7 have a timer ranging from 5s-9s - misfiring it is totally your fault (yes at times I lost concentration and misfire too).

Let us discount those who insist that they enter blind - with so many nice players out there making written guides and video guides, and assuming that the player have practiced umpteen times on it but still making the same old mistake (such as eating Lunar Dynamo on T9 after say hours of practice) - who else other than that player is to blame?

Don't get me wrong thou. I won't say I am a hardcore elitist but I won't say I'm not one. But I will try to be fair whenever I can. In this case I can only say that if one have did their homework and after hours of practice and making the same mistake over and over again, either keep practicing and improve yourself, if not that player is really undeserving to clear. I do get punished when I failed mechanics myself and I could only blame myself for it. I mean I know what's coming and I still failed to it afterall - it's like you see an oncoming train and you still walked into it

Ultimately it is up to SE to decide the direction of the game. So far what I can only see is that SE have no intention to make this a game catered to the hardcore but trying to be as inclusive as they can. Not perfect as they are now and there are still issues such as server lags which they could address better, but I can see a certain direction. It appears that SE wants to make it all inclusive so I won't be surprised that coil will be as tough as they could offer without making it overly hardcore.

Meanwhile if anyone wants to play a game where things aren't as punishing maybe there are some more casual MMOs or even single player RPGs out there which gear does make things easier, allowing you to faceroll through it (most FF non MMOs are like that anyways, grind and overpower yourself and the story boss is a joke). There are really a lot of games out there with vairying difficulty from mindless hack and slash to some kind of difficulty where you have to learn a combat system, gear attributes or even managing combos etc.

Practically speaking I think SE have been accommodating to suggestions or request that they would accommodate. But if their direction is to make this came accommodating all players from casuals to hardcores, then it is inevitable that coil will be tough. It would be inevitable that there will be very very punishing mechanics that would differentiate those who has the skill to manage it or those who simply can't, such as those who still dies to T5 divebombs despite trying for months. As such if one thinks that this game is too tough then one should probably move on to a more enjoyable game. Don't get me wrong again here but what I mean is there is no point paying for a game you won't even find it enjoyable and entertaining. I'm sure Yoshida gets this himself that he will not able to satisfy everyone.

The game is still new and personally I'm still watching it. TBH I don't find 2.2 as enjoyable as 2.1 - 2.1 is still the most enjoyable patch. The balls is still on Yoshida and his team to decide the direction of the game, whether they could convince their bosses that this is the direction and to convince them that this is the direction despite any sales loss or that this direction is the result of the good sales they get etc. In fact Yoshida may not even have that much power we think he have. It may be even up to SE higher ups to decide FF14 should be a game with some difficult but may get lesser revenue or to cheese it to grab more casual sales. But certainly if FF14 degrades to something like KOEI's Dynasty Warriors series I wouldn't be paying a monthly subscription of this much to play it though.

[TheRogueX]

[*]The majority of players don't care about a T9 clear and ilvl115 weapons (or whatever the latest top achievement is) because they're still stuck on contents 2 patches ago. While everyone would agree that only the top players should get the best rewards, if people have nothing to aspire to or look forward to in an MMO, then they won't stick around for long. By the time SE comes around to "tend" to them, they're long gone.

First off, thank you for the wonderful translation. I appreciate stuff like this, even if you just did it because you were bored. :P

As what the OP would consider a borderline casual/mainstream player (who could probably hardcore with the big boys if I just had the time to devote to it), I would like to add my 2 cents on this. I totally agree that the best rewards should go to the top players. HOWEVER, I think EVERYONE should have access to the content itself. Perhaps an *EZ MODE* for raids and such that can is more forgiving to the more casual players. It would obviously have a completely different loot list and the rewards would not be top-tier, but at least everyone would have the ability to see the content (especially the story aspects of the content). From what I've seen in write-ups, Coil has some really interesting story reveals, but most players will *never get to see them.*

To me, that's sorta like writing the last novel in a super popular book series in Latin. Could you imagine the outrage, especially if people who knew Latin already were like 'lol, noobs, go to school and learn Latin if you wanna be hardcore enough to read this book!'

Yeah totally agree with that. Yet it's kind of expecting much from elitist to want to give the time of day to the casual player base. That's just how the american culture is.

Sadly, this is true. It's why people who are privileged enough to not be poor seem to have complete and utter disdain for those who *are* poor. It's the same elitist, entitled attitude. "Why should I help you with anything? You're obviously too bad at life/this game/whatever to handle it yourself, so you don't deserve anything." That attitude bleeds into everything in our culture, including MMOs.

[Silvanoshi]

I feel if Square-Enix down-leveled gear in the 50 dungeons like they do in the lower level dungeons we would have a better playerbase overall. As it stands, anyone can get geared from low level dungeons, main story, dailies ect... then once they hit the real challenges, they dont know how to behave because they've never had to do anything beyond "have fun" or "do whatever" in these other area's.

I'm sure there are tons of people that have not done Pharos Sirius in AF Gear. There are STILL people to this day that can't handle the first boss in i70+. They are so used to winging it and thinking gear can get them through everything that they never learn properly.

Back on topic: Scripted is fine --- But random elements need to be added some of the time. New jobs that are coming can provide this opportunity.. See support jobs like (for EXAMPLE) the Time Mage. Give them Dispel as an ability.. and give some random boss a chance to randomly cast haste, protect, regen, or whatever on itself... Allow it to be interruptable too so there's no *requirement* for the Time Mage to be there when another Job can do the function too.

Square is just being too afraid to deviate from a boring, easy development style that "works" and they're afraid to try anything new. ... And its not even new.

[Ramesses]

Superb work translating this Emilia... and my sincere gratitude to the Japanese player who wrote this spectacular perspective. The OP's post actually made my day because it echoed several of my sentiments exactly... and I mean, EXACTLY.

It is so glaring that that the largest demographic of the game (the Casuals) have all yet to still challenge the Extreme Primals or Second Coil; and the alarming thing is that several of them are beginning to leave and/or stop playing altogether. It doesn't make it any easier on them that the behaviour of the "elitists" players towards them is just overwhelmingly hostile. Its not just the higher level content... its that they cant even get help for the simple little things around the game. Let me explain:

On Friday, a new player sent me a tell while I was near the Inn at Limsa and asked if there was a way to watch some of the cutscenes he had been forced to skip. I responded that he'd have to look under "Duties". He thanked me then mentioned that he wanted to watch all of them again before he quit the game the following day (May 31st). I asked him why and he just simply said because all the higher level players are always so hostile when he tried to clear higher level content. He said he loved the game and practiced a lot but was now frustrated with the atmosphere. I asked him if he had asked his FC for help... he responded that they only did Second Coil static amoungst themselves, then he thanked me again and promptly logged off.

Sound familiar?

Then just yesterday, I was on my BLM waiting for a FATE for one of my Zodiac books at the Shroud Aetheryte. Then saw a shout for a raise... and there were at least 20 to 25 high level players at the camp. Not a single one of them responded. I thought, "ok fair enough; they're all AFK". I swapped to WHM, jumped on my mount and rode out there... even got killed when I reached the player and had to ride out there again.

After I raised her, I asked if she was waiting for a FATE in the area. She responded that she had been trying to look for the treasure chest for her SMN relic but couldn't find it and kept getting killed because of the high number of monsters in the area (she had both her Titan and her Chocobo out to help her do battle). I swapped back onto my BLM and helped her clear the area while we both looked for her relic chest. We finally got it and she was of course very thankful and then mentioned something that didnt surprise me... she said something along the lines of some things being difficult because she kept having to try several things alone and nobody would help.

Now, don't get me wrong... understand that what the OP was saying is not about making the game simpler or easier so that unskilled players can clear higher level content (and Emilie clearly mentions this in her post)... its just that even the core principle of people helping each other with simple mundane tasks is now largely ignored. 90% of the casuals don't really care about all the high level loot and just want to achieve certain things in Eorzea. Period

[Kuroyasha]

Eh, I dont mind the idea of having fights where you can still recover from a death or what not(I mean realistically you can recover in t9 though), but i dont really want the fight where i can go I saved all your asses. That feeling may be nice, but id rather have the feeling of accomplishing something together where all played their part well, as i did tonight when my grp beat t9 for the first time.

Overall I disagree with the OP. I like the mechanics-driven fights. I like learning the dance, and dealing with a little randomness here and there. I liked finally getting titan ex with a grp of people in an LS who also wanted to get it down no matter how many times they wiped at first. Not saying the game cant improve, i just dont think OP's suggestions would improve it. But alas, i do not feel like writing an essay on the matter. So I bid you adieu.

[AiChyan]

This is the first mmo I stuck around to play, so I have zero experience with the end game scene in other mmos. So out of curiousity I want to ask, do other mmos rely on insta-death mechanics in the same manner ffxiv does? are the raids/trial styles similar as in they have scripted patterns and get out of aoe asap style?